From bright_crow at mindspring.com Fri Apr 2 09:53:48 2004 From: bright_crow at mindspring.com (Mike Shell) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 08:53:48 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Subject: [saymaListserv] Fwd: [ALACRO-L:2615] Alert on new FEC proposal Message-ID: <9248448.1080914028719.JavaMail.root@wamui01.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Friends, This if very disturbing. The Federal Elections Commission is proposing a rules change: >>If adopted as proposed, the proposed rules would transform overnight many nonprofit groups (including charities, civic organizations, religious groups, labor unions, and fraternal organizations) into federally regulated political committees.<< Please read and share the following story--and take action. Thanks, Mike. >>> lbradley at alawash.org 04/01/04 04:51PM >>> ALA has signed on to a statement in a proposed rulemaking by the Federal Elections Commission (FEC) which we believe threatens the activities of nonprofits like ALA and state chapters. Below is an explanation of the proposed new rule and how state chapters might get involved. If you have questions please call Patrice McDermott or myself at the Office of Government Relations at 1- 800-941-8478. Lynne Bradley, OGR Director lbradley at alawash.org Please distribute as widely as possible: On March 4, 2004, in a 5-1 vote, the Federal Election Commission (FEC) proposed new rules on the definition of "political committees" and "expenditures" that are regulated by the Commission. This is no ordinary rulemaking. If adopted as proposed, the proposed rules would transform overnight many nonprofit groups (including charities, civic organizations, religious groups, labor unions, and fraternal organizations) into federally regulated political committees. The potential chilling effect on free speech cannot be overstated: the proposed rules would have a devastating impact on the issue advocacy activities of nonprofit organizations. The current, tightly drawn FEC definition of regulated and restricted "political speech" would suddenly be expanded to include all speech about anyone who is a candidate for federal office at the relevant moment. Nonprofits who engage in issue advocacy could be faced with draconian restrictions on how they raise and spend money - for merely expressing an opinion about a federal officeholder's policies or views. Many nonprofits would be forced to choose between either ceasing normal operations or facing crippling restrictions on fund raising. The proposed rules would convert many nonprofit groups into federally-regulated political committees: the rules would dramatically expand the definition of a "political committee" - a group would be forced to become a "political committee" if it spends or spent merely $50,000 (or, in the alternative, 50% of total disbursements) in the current year - or any one of the past four years - on voter mobilization work or on communications that "promote, support, attack, oppose" the positions of a federal officeholder running for reelection or on voter mobilization work; expand the definition of a federally-regulated "expenditure" to include communications that "promote, support, attack, or oppose" a federal candidate or policy position of a candidate; create a "look back" at a nonprofit group's activities over the past four years - before McCain-Feingold was ever passed and long before the FEC ever proposed these rules - to determine whether the group qualifies as a federal political committee. If so, the FEC would require the group to raise hard money to repay prior expenses that are now subject to the new rules. Any and all further work would be halted until debts to the "old" organization were repaid. Examples of the kinds of speech that would be severely restricted or outright prohibited by the FEC's proposed regulations include: The American Red Cross could not run newspaper ads soliciting contributions to a fund for victims of a major flood in Louisiana if the ads also presented in a favorable light a message from a U.S. senator from Louisiana who was running for re-election requesting assistance for his state. The National Rifle Association could not send letters to a list of activists urging them to call their members of Congress to oppose a bill banning all guns if the letter could be read as criticizing those members of Congress and they were standing for reelection. A "good government" organization like Common Cause would become a "political committee" by launching a campaign costing more than $50,000 to promote a report criticizing members of the House of Representatives for taking junkets to the Bahamas as guests of the hotel industry. The Club for Growth could not use corporate contributions to provide information to the public regarding federal candidates' voting records on budget issues. The Concord Coalition could not communicate its message of fiscal discipline and opposition to federal spending increases to the public as part of a fundraising and recruitment campaign if it identified specific members of Congress as favoring such spending increases and those members of Congress were running for re-election. For a Q&A fact sheet on this proposed rulemaking, see http://www.afj.org/nonprofit/public_policy/campaign_finance_reform/FEC_Prop527.pdf TAKE ACTION! For more information, go to http://www.nonprofitadvocacy.org/ or send a message to:advocacy at nonprofitadvocacy.org Two Ways To Send Comments to the FEC 1. Send you own comments using a template you can edit on OMB Watch's online contact system. 2. Sign on to comments with the Coalition to Save Nonprofit Advocacy by sending an email by noon on Monday, April 5, 2004, to: takeaction at afj.org From bright_crow at mindspring.com Fri Apr 2 12:49:54 2004 From: bright_crow at mindspring.com (Mike Shell) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:49:54 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Subject: [saymaListserv] Fwd: More on new FEC proposal Message-ID: <33059778.1080924594739.JavaMail.root@wamui02.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Folks, Regarding the FEC proposal circulated earlier this morning, here is more information from the listserv of the School of Library and Information Science at the University of South Carolina. Thanks, Mike. >>>1st Forwarded email>>> The full text of this proposed regulation is available at http://www.regulations.gov/freddocs/04-05290.htm. COMMENTS ARE DUE APRIL 5TH! e-mail politicalcommitteestatus at fec.gov or go to http://comments.regulations.gov/EXTERNAL/index.cfm?action=comment&docketId=04-05290. from http://www.regulations.gov/AGCY_FEDERALELECTIONCOMMISSION.cfm : "All comments should be addressed to Ms. Mai T. Dinh, Acting Assistant General Counsel, and must be submitted in either electronic or written form. Commenters are strongly encouraged to submit comments electronically to ensure timely receipt and consideration. Electronic mail comments should be sent to politicalcommitteestatus at fec.gov and must include the full name, electronic mail address and postal service address of the commenter. Electronic mail comments that do not contain the full name, electronic mail address and postal service address of the commenter will not be considered. If the electronic mail comments include an attachment, the attachment must be in the Adobe Acrobat (.pdf) or Microsoft Word (.doc) format. Faxed comments should be sent to (202) 219-3923, with printed copy follow-up to ensure legibility. Written comments and printed copies of faxed comments should be sent to the Federal Election Commission, 999 E Street, NW., Washington, DC 20463. The Commission will post public comments on its Web site. The hearing will be held in the Commission"s ninth floor meeting room, 999 E Street, NW., Washington, DC." Matt Kurz MLIS Student University of South Carolina "The first information survival skill we will all need is the ability to decode propaganda and demythologize the highly commercialized and entertainment-based U.S. culture. Psychologists politely call it 'resistance to enculturation.' Writer Ernest Hemingway had a less elegant term: 'crap detecting.'" --Karl Albrecht >>>2nd Forwarded email>>> As I understand it -- and if someone else has additional or different information on this, please post it -- one of the key groups advocating these proposed rule changes is the Republican National Committee. A copy of the letter the RNC sent to the FEC in support of the changes is available on their website at http://www.gop.com/RNCResearch/read.aspx?ID=3800. Amanda Amanda Nash amandan at uga.edu -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Header Type: application/octet-stream Size: 2221 bytes Desc: not available URL: From guershea at hiwaay.net Fri Apr 2 18:53:25 2004 From: guershea at hiwaay.net (JGuerry-CShea) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 16:53:25 -0600 Subject: [saymaListserv] Memorial service for Dick Cordray Message-ID: <200404022253.i32MrOOH912110@mail.hiwaay.net> The memorial service for Richard (Dick) E. Cordray will be held Monday evening, April 12, at 7 p.m., at Berryhill Funeral Home in Huntsville, Alabama. For directions to the funeral home, call 256-837-6327 or e-mail guershea at hiwaay.net. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhminshall at comcast.net Sat Apr 3 13:10:20 2004 From: jhminshall at comcast.net (Janet Minshall) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 12:10:20 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] Encouraging News Message-ID: Dear Friends, Many of you have sent messages of support, interest and questions about issues I have raised on these lists and in the pages of Friendly Woman while it was edited by SAYMA women. Recently there has been encouraging news of ACTION - yes ACTION being taken. The Director of Denmark's new Environmental Assessment Institute is Bjorn Lomborg, author of the book The Skeptical Environmentalist, which challenged the accuracy of much of the data commonly used by the environmental movement. With a solid background as an activist in Greenpeace, Lomborg, a professor in the Department of Statistical Analysis at the University of Copenhagen, set out to explore and evaluate the environmental data when it began to be challenged by a Danish economist. To his surprise, Lomborg, through his research, found that the economist's criticisms were well taken and accurate. However environmental organizations and the experts they had quoted for so many years were quite hostile to the newly updated information apparently on the assumption that it would make recruitment of volunteers and fundraising more difficult and tarnish their image. Lomborg's response was that, on the contrary, the updated information would make many global environmental and related problems solvable. Since its establishment, Denmark's Environmental Assessment Institute has widened its areas of enquiry to include other related concerns and has established committees to thoroughly research and then confront the daunting challenges of economic development and underdevelopment, climate change, sanitation and water resources, population and migration, malnutrition and hunger, communicable diseases, armed conflicts, education and literacy, financial stability and instability, and governance and corruption. The committees are headed by forward-thinking faculty and research staff drawn from some of the most prestigious universities and institutes in the world. Their panel of nine economists, for example, includes four Nobel laureates. Each committee will issue a full report as their research phase and cost-benefit analysis, is concluded. A summary of the findings and recommendations, which are to be called The Copenhagen Consensus, will be published widely in both academic and popular journals (The Economist magazine is a co-sponsor of the project.) Finally they will confront governments and major organizations around the world to take action on the concerns they present. Additional information and updates on this project can be found at http://www.economist.com/copenhagenconsensus. From listener at bellsouth.net Sat Apr 3 21:44:37 2004 From: listener at bellsouth.net (Kit Potter) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 19:44:37 -0600 Subject: [saymaListserv] FW: recruiting Message-ID: <001101c419e6$63a8b5f0$6701a8c0@heyoka> This has been in place ever since No Child Left Behind was passed, but there are probably still parents who are unaware of it. And some schools have simply handed over the whole roster, scared because they will lose federal funds if they don't observe the letter of the law. It's unclear what happens if a parent wakes up belatedly and wants to opt out. Watch out for this school note Paul Vitello March 30, 2004 The various notices from the school pour into our house daily like some slot machine jackpot of pre-sorted mail. Some days, it's one or two pieces. Some weeks, it seems like hundreds - announcing board meetings, PTA meetings, book sales, sports schedules, bus schedules, interim grades, yearbook pictures, invitations, permission slips, health notices... It is a wide and deep river of paper, and in the currents it would be easy to miss the school notification required under Sec. 9528 of the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001. Think of this notification as the dangerous undertow in the river of paper from your local schools. It is the one required under the "Armed Forces Recruiter Access to Students" section of the "No Child" law. It says that school officials are required to turn over to U.S. military recruiters the names, addresses and phone numbers of every child - male and female - enrolled in the ninth, 10th, 11th and 12 grades of your school system. The school notice will inform you of this, and offer you a Do Not Call option whereby your child's name can be withheld from the list. If you do nothing, the recruiters may call day or night, and say what they will about the opportunities awaiting your child in the armed forces. If that is not your idea of child guidance, you have to sign a form. The form will say something like, "I am requesting that my child's name, address and telephone number NOT be released to U.S. military recruiters..." By all rights, the form should really say, "Please do not sell my child's name to the U.S. military so they can contact him or her without my permission ..." The word "sell" is the proper word.The schools get money for turning over the names of your children. To put the onus where it belongs, any school that does not turn over those names risks losing its federal funding under the law. For some schools, that means a lot of money. So far, no schools around here have balked. "They all know what the [No Child Left Behind] act is about," said Capt. Todd Kickbusch, commander of Army recruiting on Long Island, "and they have all been forthcoming with the information." An informal survey indicates that between 20 percent and 30 percent of the parents in some schools ask to have their childrens' names withheld. Whether the rest are comfortable with recruiters calling their kids - or whether the rest just happened to miss that opt-out notification form that arrived in the mail one day last fall - is anybody's guess. "There is an ongoing discussion here about when the best time is for mailing these notices out," said Robert Schilling, executive director for administration and human resources at Massapequa High School. Some Massapequa officials thought the Armed Forces Recruiter notice should be included in the large packet mailed to each student in late summer. This includes each child's course schedule, the name of his or her new guidance counselor, and other information that officials thought students and their parents would be sure to read. Others thought the recruitment notice should be sent under separate cover. For now, said Schilling, it's sent in the late summer packet. If parents complain of having missed it, that may change. Middle-class communities are not the ones I worry about, though. Parents with jobs and higher education tend to imagine other options than the military for their kids. The schools that will sell the highest numbers of their kids to the recruiters under Sec. 9528 are the poor ones. Bay Shore and Brentwood have already lost young men to the wars over there. Let whoever wants to join the military go down to a recruiting office and sign up. Let him or her be 18. But if you do not want military recruiters calling your house while you are at work, and while your 16-year-old is perhaps playing some PlayStation war game, imagining him or herself as a master of tank maneuvering, keep an eye peeled for that notification from your school. It will come in a pre-sorted envelope, and it's warning you about plans for the pre-sorting of your kid. Copyright © 2004, Newsday, Inc. From bright_crow at mindspring.com Tue Apr 6 08:04:52 2004 From: bright_crow at mindspring.com (Mike Shell) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 08:04:52 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [saymaListserv] FW: AFSC Sign On to Latest Letter re: FEC Proposed Rules Message-ID: <17237039.1081253093336.JavaMail.root@wamui01.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Friends, American Friends Service Committee has signed on to the latest iteration of a letter opposing restrictive FEC Proposed rules with the Coalition to Protect Nonprofit Advocacy opposing the proposed Federal Election Commission rule change. This new rule would "redefine 501(c)3s, (c)4s, and 527s as 'political committees' if they engaged in certain currently-legitimate activities. The result is that these non-profits would need to raise hard money to engage in this work, rather than use soft money." Here is a summary, written as part of correspondence to the AFSC Program Consultative Group by Kitty Dana: ----------------------------------- 1) As with the previous iteration, the proposed rules have much broader language that would sweep in previously allowable advocacy activities for non-profits, including 501(c)3's. This means that our ability to legitimately criticize the Administration's policies (while refraining from attacking the incumbent himself, of course!) would be curtailed. 2) Stringent new language was added that would restrict non-profits' ability to do NON-PARTISAN Get Out the Vote activities. This relates to expenditures for voter mobilization, inclusive of a $50,000 cap on GOTV activities in Latino and African-American communities afer July 5, 2004. 3) If that's not bad enough, there is a ridiculous "Look Back Rule" that would require a non-profit to repay with hard money any expenses incurred during the 2004 and 2003 for the above types of activities that they might have used soft money for. ------------------------------------ Take a look also at the Action Alert from the Alliance for Justice's Nonprofit Action Network. In particular, check the PDF document of comments from the Coalition to Protect Nonprofit Advocacy. Thanks, Mike. -----Original Message----- From: Ann Allegra [mailto:aallegra at afj.org] Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 6:06 PM To: Kitty Dana Subject: [NPAN] ACTION ALERT: Add Your Organization's Name to Comments to the FEC Ms. Dana - Please add your organization's name to the attached comments in response to the FEC's Proposed Rules on "Political Committees." The Coalition to Protect Nonprofit Advocacy has written comments, which will be submitted on behalf of hundreds of nonprofit organizations across the country in opposition to the FEC's latest effort to limit nonprofit advocacy. Click here for a copy of the comments: http://www.allianceforjustice.org/nonprofit/public_policy/NPRM_comments.pdf If you would like to add your organization's name to the comments, please send an email by noon on Monday, April 5, 2004, to takeaction at afj.org. The following is a summary of the points raised in the comments: 1. The proposed rules will seriously impede the ability of nonprofit organizations to engage in issue advocacy. 2. The proposed rules will restrict the ability of nonprofit organizations to conduct nonpartisan voter participation activities. 3. The proposed rules will restrict the ability of nonprofit organizations to communicate with their members on legislative and public policy matters. 4. Congress has addressed the core issues raised in the proposed rules and it stopped far short of the radical proposals now being considered. 5. The Commission lacks the administrative tools to examine the issues raised in the proposed rules and, in any event, there is insufficient time to carry out this examination under the current expedited schedule. 6. Congress and not the Commission is the appropriate institution to resolve the delicate political issues at the core of the proposed rules. If you have any questions concerning the comments or the proposed rules, please contact Liz Towne at ltowne at afj.org or Alma Henderson at ahenderson at pfaw.org. Thank you for your participation in this important rulemaking. Alliance for Justice Leadership Conference on Civil Rights League of Conservation Voters NAACP National Voter Fund NARAL Pro-Choice America People For the American Way Planned Parenthood Federation of America Sierra Club *********************************************************************** This message is being distributed to the Alliance for Justice's Nonprofit Action Network. Members of this network receive occasional e-mail messages with information on new rules governing nonprofit advocacy, announcements of new publications from the Alliance, legislative alerts about threats to nonprofit advocacy, and other information of interest to nonprofit activists. To become a member of the Nonprofit Action Network visit http://www.allianceforjustice.org/signup/signup.asp From jhminshall at comcast.net Tue Apr 6 14:22:30 2004 From: jhminshall at comcast.net (Janet Minshall) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:22:30 -0400 Subject: [saymaListserv] Fwd: Put Your Money Where Their Mouths Are -- Economic Justice Message-ID: This message was forwarded by Tom Coyner, member of Seoul Monthly Meeting in South Korea. Tom often sends articles that address issues many US Friends apparently do not understand. Please read and consider it carefully. Janet >Put Your Money Where Their Mouths Are > >By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF >The New York Times > >April 3, 2004 > >BISKÉ, Chad - With Democrats on the warpath over >trade, there's pressure for tougher >international labor standards that would try to >put Abakr Adoud out of work. > >Abakr lives with his family in the desert near >this oasis in eastern Chad. He has never been to >school and roams the desert all day with his >brothers, searching for sticks that can be made >into doors for mud huts. He is 10 years old. > >It's appalling that Abakr, like tens of millions >of other children abroad, is working instead of >attending school. But prohibiting child labor >wouldn't do him any good, for there's no school >in the area for him to attend. If child labor >hawks manage to keep Abakr from working, without >giving him a school to attend, he and his family >will simply be poorer than ever. > >And that's the problem when Americans get on >their high horses about child labor, without >understanding the cruel third world economics >that cause it. The push by Democrats like John >Kerry for international labor standards is well >intentioned, but it is also oblivious to third >world realities. > >Look, I feel like Scrooge when I speak out >against bans on sweatshops or on child labor. In >the West, it's hard to find anyone outside a >university economics department who agrees with >me. But the basic Western attitude - >particularly among Democrats and warm-and-fuzzy >humanitarians - sometimes ends up making things >worse. Consider the results of two major >American efforts to ban imports produced by >child labor: > >In 1993, when Congress proposed the U.S. Child >Labor Deterrence Act, which would have blocked >imports made by children (if it had passed), >garment factories in Bangladesh fired 50,000 >children. Many ended up in worse jobs, like >prostitution. > >Then there was the hue and cry beginning in 1996 >against soccer balls stitched by children in >their homes (mostly after school) in Sialkot, >Pakistan. As a result, the balls are now >stitched by adults, often in factories under >international monitoring. > >But many women are worse off. Conservative >Pakistanis believe that women shouldn't work >outside the home, so stitching soccer balls is >now off limits for many of them. Moreover, bad >publicity about Pakistan led China to grab >market share with machine-stitched balls: over >the next two years, Pakistan's share of the U.S. >soccer ball market dropped to 45 percent from 65 >percent. > >So poor Pakistani families who depended on >earnings from women or children who stitched >soccer balls are now further impoverished. > >I'm not arguing that child labor is a good >thing. It isn't. But as Jagdish Bhagwati, the >eminent trade economist, notes in his new book, >"In Defense of Globalization," thundering >against child labor doesn't address the poverty >that causes it. > >In the village of Toukoultoukouli in Chad, I >visited the 17 girls and 31 boys in the two-room >school. Many children, especially girls, never >attend school, which ends after the fourth grade. > >So a 12-year-old boy working in Toukoultoukouli >has gotten all the education he can. Instead of >keeping him from working, Westerners should >channel their indignation into getting all >children into school for at least those four >years - and there is one way that could perhaps >be achieved. > >It's bribery. The U.N. World Food Program runs a >model foreign aid effort called the school >feeding program. It offers free meals to >children in poor schools (and an extra bribe of >grain for girl students to take home to their >families). Almost everywhere, providing food >raises school attendance, particularly for >girls. "If there were meals here, parents would >send their kids," said Muhammad Adam, a teacher >in Toukoultoukouli. > >School feeding costs just 19 cents per day per child. > >So here's my challenge to university students: >Instead of spending your energy boycotting Nike >or pressing for barriers against child labor, >why not sponsor school meals in places like >Toukoultoukouli? > >I spoke with officials at the World Food >Program, and they'd be thrilled to have private >groups or individuals help sponsor school >feedings. (See www.nytimes.com/kristofresponds >for details.) Children in Africa will be much >better off with a hot meal and an education than >with your self-righteous indignation. > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > KOREA ECONOMIC READER > A free subscription service by Tom Coyner > Email: coyner at gol.com > Home Tel: 82-2-764-8387; Fax: 82-2-747-7653 > Work Tel: 82-2-2198-2230 Mobile: 82-11-9099-6195 > Home Web: http://www2.gol.com/users/coynerhm >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Should you wish off of the distribution list, please send a > simple "unsubscribe" message; if you wish others to receive > this clipping service, please offer their email addresses. >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nunispablo at yahoo.com Tue Apr 6 15:55:17 2004 From: nunispablo at yahoo.com (Paul Nunis) Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:55:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [saymaListserv] Fwd: Put Your Money Where Their Mouths Are -- Economic Justice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040406195517.36774.qmail@web13701.mail.yahoo.com> > >...when I speak out against bans on > >sweatshops or on child labor. In the West, > > it's hard to find anyone outside a university > >economics department who agrees with me... Poverty does not cause child labor, politicians do... To be more specific, poverty causes the loss of choice over one's life, which is typically exploited through means made legitimate by politicians, such as sweatsops (no doubt Friends are already familar with the witness.org report on sweatshops in American Samoa as an example). Greed won't be turned off like a light switch because we boycott soccer balls, or cute clothes for oursleves and our children, or Taco Bell, or anything else...the greedy will just find some other way to exploit the realities of society. And Friends should indeed be aware that good intentioned choices come with consequences, some unintended. But, to follow the advice of these economists, Friends would never have helped slaves on the Underground Railroad, for fear that things would be made worse for those left behind. No easy answers, and no magic wand, but I reject the coercion implicit in the suggestion that we should stand by and do nothing about child labr, sweatshops, and other forms of modern slavery, for fear that the disadvantaged will not find immediate or perfect relief from the circumstances that oppress them. But that is purely my choice...no one else need follow it. Paul Nunis ===== " There is no standing above the conflict on Olympian heights...The artist must elect to fight for Freedom or for Slavery. I have made my choice. " Paul Robeson __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ From jhminshall at comcast.net Wed Apr 7 07:34:56 2004 From: jhminshall at comcast.net (Janet Minshall) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 07:34:56 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Re: [saymaListserv] Fwd: Put Your Money Where Their Mouths Are -- Economic Justice Message-ID: >Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 07:31:44 -0400 >To: Paul Nunis >From: Janet Minshall >Subject: Re: [saymaListserv] Fwd: Put Your Money Where Their Mouths >Are -- Economic Justice >Cc: >Bcc: >X-Attachments: > >Dear Paul Nunis, Thanks so much for your response. I don't believe >that doing away with sweat shops and child labor will solve the >problems of poverty and lack of education either. But I do think >that many of us who live very far from those sweatshops and those >toiling children think that if we just make laws/policies against >sweat shops and the products they produce that will, somehow, solve >the problem. It won't. It never has. > >You call those who actually profit from and legitimize child labor >and sweatshops "politicians". That term is too ennobling for them. >Basically, in the areas of East Africa where I've worked, they >aren't "politicians" but rather old time tribal leaders who see >themselves as having the right to take from everyone whose lives >they control. Well-intentioned choices with unintended consequences >can no longer be justified as well-intentioned once the actual >consequences are made clear. > >The title of the article (Put Your Money Where Their Mouths Are) >indicates that the only solution that will really work is to >encourage economic development and job creation wherever child labor >is a problem. That is what we can do to help alleviate poverty in >the rest of the world. Wherever there are jobs available, grown men >and women inevitably clamor to take them and one of the first >priorities they address is education for their children. > >By the way, I never heard of any economists who argued against the >underground railroad. Janet > > > > > > >> > >...when I speak out against bans on >>> >sweatshops or on child labor. In the West, >>> > it's hard to find anyone outside a university >>> >economics department who agrees with me... >> >>Poverty does not cause child labor, politicians do... >>To be more specific, poverty causes the loss of choice >>over one's life, which is typically exploited through >>means made legitimate by politicians, such as >>sweatsops (no doubt Friends are already familar with >>the witness.org report on sweatshops in American Samoa >>as an example). >>Greed won't be turned off like a light switch because >>we boycott soccer balls, or cute clothes for oursleves >>and our children, or Taco Bell, or anything else...the >>greedy will just find some other way to exploit the >>realities of society. >>And Friends should indeed be aware that good >>intentioned choices come with consequences, some >>unintended. >> >>But, to follow the advice of these economists, Friends >>would never have helped slaves on the Underground >>Railroad, for fear that things would be made worse for >>those left behind. >>No easy answers, and no magic wand, but I reject the >>coercion implicit in the suggestion that we should >>stand by and do nothing about child labr, sweatshops, >>and other forms of modern slavery, for fear that the >>disadvantaged will not find immediate or perfect >>relief from the circumstances that oppress them. >> >>But that is purely my choice...no one else need follow >>it. >> >>Paul Nunis >> >> >> >>===== >>" There is no standing above the conflict on Olympian heights...The >>artist must elect to fight for Freedom >>or for Slavery. I have made my choice. " >>Paul Robeson >> >>__________________________________ >>Do you Yahoo!? >>Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway >>http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ From losborne at cn.edu Wed Apr 7 09:10:38 2004 From: losborne at cn.edu (Larry Osborne) Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:10:38 -0400 Subject: [saymaListserv] Child labor Message-ID: Thanks to Friends Janet and Paul for deeper reflection on what to do about child labor and related ills. Do we boycott the companies and drive them out of the poor communities who need them in places like Pakistan to even more repressive and exploitative regions like China? Or do we address the root problem of economic mal-development and poverty that create conditions conducive to sweatshops in the first place? Why not both? That is: Refuse to participate in consumer activities that support unjust worker conditions, while supporting sustainable micro-development in the areas that will likely be adversely affected. Perhaps, too, there are creative alternatives or additions to boycotts, if they indeed do more harm than good. Example might be: letter writing, petitions, community and campus forums, guerilla publicity campaigns. My understanding is consumer pressure on Nike has resulted in some improvement in worker conditions from atrocious to average. What would have happened with it? I think the U.S. slavery analogy is instructive. Friends of that era refused to purchase cloth and dye made from slave labor as a matter of conscience. But they also did positive and pro-active things such as help with the Underground Railroad. Perhaps the message for us today is do likewise: Both/and, not either/or. Larry Osborne West Knoxville Friends Meeting "Be joyful though you have considered all the facts." --Wendell Berry From tlamm at chpl.net Fri Apr 9 13:58:16 2004 From: tlamm at chpl.net (Tim Lamm) Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 13:58:16 -0400 Subject: [saymaListserv] Yearly Meeting Registration Message-ID: <0a0a01c41e5c$ff52af90$15a8a8c0@BRADBURY1> Dear Friends, Yearly Meeting 2004 program information and registration materials are now available on the SAYMA web site. You can read about the program, view the schedule, and download the registration forms to fill out and mail in. (No on-line registration---maybe next year!) The registration materials will also be mailed soon to each monthly meeting, worship group and household attending last yearly meeting. The deadline for registration without incurring a late fee is May 15. Encourage the Friends in your meeting to sign up! ---Tim Lamm, Web Manager Southern Appalachian Yearly Meeting and Association www.sayma.org From jhminshall at comcast.net Sat Apr 10 14:45:54 2004 From: jhminshall at comcast.net (Janet Minshall) Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 14:45:54 -0400 Subject: [saymaListserv] Child Labor and Sweatshops In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Larry, Thanks for your comments (below). The whole chain of messages on these topics is reproduced below for those who are interested but didn't see the first or second message. Larry, I agree with just about everything you said about the issue of working conditions of those employed by US or Multinational companies outsourcing to other countries. I am also concerned about the means we use to address such working conditions and related issues as Friends. First, one aside. I have visited "sweatshops" in several countries and have found them to be not at all as described by spokespersons from the US labor movement. I have no doubt that there are really awful places to work where the conditions are terrible, but I have looked and have not found them. What I have found, generally, is people working in better conditions than other places of employment in their country provide. The real problem may be that Western European and US visitors may not have experienced ordinary everyday life in that country apart from the "sweatshop" they were shown. Many people in the world consider it near luxury to have electric lights, windows that open and close with screens, fans, and an indoor toilet where they work. North Americans and Western Europeans may well overlook these relatively primitive comforts because, to them, the climate is hot and sticky without air conditioning. No, I have never seen a "sweatshop" with with air conditioning. But having lived in Atlanta before I could afford an air conditioner I know whereof I speak. Pressure from consumers and shareholder activists does, indeed, create change. Nike is a very good example. Not only have the working conditions for their employees improved dramatically in the US and abroad, but they have also become much more conscientious about the environmental impact of both their products and their production facilities. They are one of several companies used as an illustration of how corporations can change to benefit the environment in the communities where they locate. You can see what they have done in a video our little worship group bought recently at the recommendation of Quaker Earthcare Witness called "The Next Industrial Revolution". We will bring it to Yearly Meeting and show it to anyone who wishes to see it. The only thing I'd like to add is a query. How is it that Friends have come to consider corporations and businesses in general "the enemy". The old Quaker joke is that Friends came to the New World to do good and did very well indeed. This humorously illustrates the fact that early on Friends were business people. Their innovations in ethical business practices did, indeed, bring them financial rewards. But nowadays Friends seems to consider business dirty and immoral. Business and corporations provide almost all of the jobs in the US. About one in ten of them are publicly charged with illegal or unethical activities. A much smaller number are proven guilty. While outrageous CEO pay has caused widespread disgust, that has been shown to have resulted from actions of Boards of Directors who were corrupted and acted in their own interests rather than in the interests of the shareholders. There isn't much publicity about it but a great many companies have actually removed both their CEOs and all or most of their previous directors at the behest of shareholder activists. If recent publicity and public opinion is to have lasting effect, the many corporations and businesses that have truly reformed need to be recognized. How many Friends have noticed? How many Friends are willing to point this out when someone in meeting rails against widespread corporate corruption and irresponsibility? Is it just more politically correct and acceptable to other Friends to be anti-corporation and anti-globalization? Is this the case in spite of the fact that globalization is rapidly bringing the poor of the world out of poverty? Are we really more concerned about relatively privileged US and Western European workers losing their jobs as a result of outsourcing than we are about the very much poorer people in the rest of the world who are getting those jobs? Janet Minshall >Thanks to Friends Janet and Paul for deeper reflection on what to do >about child labor and related ills. Do we boycott the companies and >drive them out of the poor communities who need them in places like >Pakistan to even more repressive and exploitative regions like China? >Or do we address the root problem of economic mal-development and >poverty that create conditions conducive to sweatshops in the first >place? > >Why not both? That is: Refuse to participate in consumer activities >that support unjust worker conditions, while supporting sustainable >micro-development in the areas that will likely be adversely affected. > >Perhaps, too, there are creative alternatives or additions to boycotts, >if they indeed do more harm than good. Example might be: letter >writing, petitions, community and campus forums, guerilla publicity >campaigns. > >My understanding is consumer pressure on Nike has resulted in some >improvement in worker conditions from atrocious to average. What would >have happened with it? > >I think the U.S. slavery analogy is instructive. Friends of that era >refused to purchase cloth and dye made from slave labor as a matter of >conscience. But they also did positive and pro-active things such as >help with the Underground Railroad. Perhaps the message for us today is >do likewise: Both/and, not either/or. > >Larry Osborne >West Knoxville Friends Meeting > >"Be joyful though you have considered all the facts." --Wendell Berry To: Paul Nunis From: Janet Minshall Subject: Re: [saymaListserv] Fwd: Put Your Money Where Their Mouths Are -- Economic Justice Dear Paul Nunis, Thanks so much for your response. I don't believe that doing away with sweat shops and child labor will solve the problems of poverty and lack of education either. But I do think that many of us who live very far from those sweatshops and those toiling children think that if we just make laws/policies against sweat shops and the products they produce that will, somehow, solve the problem. It won't. It never has. You call those who actually profit from and legitimize child labor and sweatshops "politicians". That term is too ennobling for them. Basically, in the areas of East Africa where I've worked, they aren't "politicians" but rather old time tribal leaders who see themselves as having the right to take from everyone whose lives they control. Well-intentioned choices with unintended consequences can no longer be justified as well-intentioned once the actual consequences are made clear. The title of the article (Put Your Money Where Their Mouths Are) indicates that the only solution that will really work is to encourage economic development and job creation wherever child labor is a problem. That is what we can do to help alleviate poverty in the rest of the world. Wherever there are jobs available, grown men and women inevitably clamor to take them and one of the first priorities they address is education for their children. By the way, I never heard of any economists who argued against the underground railroad. Janet > > >...when I speak out against bans on >> >sweatshops or on child labor. In the West, >> > it's hard to find anyone outside a university >> >economics department who agrees with me... > >Poverty does not cause child labor, politicians do... >To be more specific, poverty causes the loss of choice >over one's life, which is typically exploited through >means made legitimate by politicians, such as >sweatsops (no doubt Friends are already familar with >the witness.org report on sweatshops in American Samoa >as an example). >Greed won't be turned off like a light switch because >we boycott soccer balls, or cute clothes for oursleves >and our children, or Taco Bell, or anything else...the >greedy will just find some other way to exploit the >realities of society. >And Friends should indeed be aware that good >intentioned choices come with consequences, some >unintended. > >But, to follow the advice of these economists, Friends >would never have helped slaves on the Underground >Railroad, for fear that things would be made worse for >those left behind. >No easy answers, and no magic wand, but I reject the >coercion implicit in the suggestion that we should >stand by and do nothing about child labr, sweatshops, >and other forms of modern slavery, for fear that the >disadvantaged will not find immediate or perfect >relief from the circumstances that oppress them. > >But that is purely my choice...no one else need follow >it. > >Paul Nunis > > > >===== >" There is no standing above the conflict on >Olympian heights...The artist must elect to >fight for Freedom >or for Slavery. I have made my choice. Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:22:30 -0400 To: From: Janet Minshall Subject: Fwd: Put Your Money Where Their Mouths Are -- Economic Justice This message was forwarded by Tom Coyner, member of Seoul Monthly Meeting in South Korea. Tom often sends articles that address issues many US Friends apparently do not understand. Please read and consider it carefully. Janet >"Put Your Money Where Their Mouths Are > >By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF >The New York Times > >April 3, 2004 > >BISKÉ, Chad - With Democrats on the warpath over >trade, there's pressure for tougher >international labor standards that would try to >put Abakr Adoud out of work. > >Abakr lives with his family in the desert near >this oasis in eastern Chad. He has never been to >school and roams the desert all day with his >brothers, searching for sticks that can be made >into doors for mud huts. He is 10 years old. > >It's appalling that Abakr, like tens of millions >of other children abroad, is working instead of >attending school. But prohibiting child labor >wouldn't do him any good, for there's no school >in the area for him to attend. If child labor >hawks manage to keep Abakr from working, without >giving him a school to attend, he and his family >will simply be poorer than ever. > >And that's the problem when Americans get on >their high horses about child labor, without >understanding the cruel third world economics >that cause it. The push by Democrats like John >Kerry for international labor standards is well >intentioned, but it is also oblivious to third >world realities. > >Look, I feel like Scrooge when I speak out >against bans on sweatshops or on child labor. In >the West, it's hard to find anyone outside a >university economics department who agrees with >me. But the basic Western attitude - >particularly among Democrats and warm-and-fuzzy >humanitarians - sometimes ends up making things >worse. Consider the results of two major >American efforts to ban imports produced by >child labor: > >In 1993, when Congress proposed the U.S. Child >Labor Deterrence Act, which would have blocked >imports made by children (if it had passed), >garment factories in Bangladesh fired 50,000 >children. Many ended up in worse jobs, like >prostitution. > >Then there was the hue and cry beginning in 1996 >against soccer balls stitched by children in >their homes (mostly after school) in Sialkot, >Pakistan. As a result, the balls are now >stitched by adults, often in factories under >international monitoring. > >But many women are worse off. Conservative >Pakistanis believe that women shouldn't work >outside the home, so stitching soccer balls is >now off limits for many of them. Moreover, bad >publicity about Pakistan led China to grab >market share with machine-stitched balls: over >the next two years, Pakistan's share of the U.S. >soccer ball market dropped to 45 percent from 65 >percent. > >So poor Pakistani families who depended on >earnings from women or children who stitched >soccer balls are now further impoverished. > >I'm not arguing that child labor is a good >thing. It isn't. But as Jagdish Bhagwati, the >eminent trade economist, notes in his new book, >"In Defense of Globalization," thundering >against child labor doesn't address the poverty >that causes it. > >In the village of Toukoultoukouli in Chad, I >visited the 17 girls and 31 boys in the two-room >school. Many children, especially girls, never >attend school, which ends after the fourth grade. > >So a 12-year-old boy working in Toukoultoukouli >has gotten all the education he can. Instead of >keeping him from working, Westerners should >channel their indignation into getting all >children into school for at least those four >years - and there is one way that could perhaps >be achieved. > >It's bribery. The U.N. World Food Program runs a >model foreign aid effort called the school >feeding program. It offers free meals to >children in poor schools (and an extra bribe of >grain for girl students to take home to their >families). Almost everywhere, providing food >raises school attendance, particularly for >girls. "If there were meals here, parents would >send their kids," said Muhammad Adam, a teacher >in Toukoultoukouli. > >School feeding costs just 19 cents per day per child. > >So here's my challenge to university students: >Instead of spending your energy boycotting Nike >or pressing for barriers against child labor, >why not sponsor school meals in places like >Toukoultoukouli? > >I spoke with officials at the World Food >Program, and they'd be thrilled to have private >groups or individuals help sponsor school >feedings. (See www.nytimes.com/kristofresponds >for details.) Children in Africa will be much >better off with a hot meal and an education than >with your self-righteous indignation. > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > KOREA ECONOMIC READER > A free subscription service by Tom Coyner > Email: coyner at gol.com > Home Tel: 82-2-764-8387; Fax: 82-2-747-7653 > Work Tel: 82-2-2198-2230 Mobile: 82-11-9099-6195 > Home Web: http://www2.gol.com/users/coynerhm Paul Robeson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Vmbra at aol.com Sat Apr 10 20:00:42 2004 From: Vmbra at aol.com (Vmbra at aol.com) Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 20:00:42 EDT Subject: [saymaListserv] Fwd: Put Your Money Where Their Mouths Are -- Economic Ju... Message-ID: <12f.3efb2bc6.2da9e4aa@aol.com> Allowing child labor to go on is not likely to lift the children out of poverty or improve women's rights. The most likely consequence is that the male dominated societies will continue to take advantage of both. There is no particular reason why the jobs described in the article cannot--or should not--be done by adult women or men. While I agree that mere oppostion to child labor without paying attention to the other concerns noted in the article is likely to be counter productive, criticizing those who oppose child labor because alternatives imposed on them are worse is like criticizing people who oppose land mines because without them hostile governments might use even worse weapons. cps -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhminshall at comcast.net Sun Apr 11 19:28:52 2004 From: jhminshall at comcast.net (Janet Minshall) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 19:28:52 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Re: [saymaListserv] Fwd: Put Your Money Where Their Mouths Are -- Economic Justice Message-ID: SAYMA Friends, Please refer back to the message I sent on 4-10 titled "Child Labor and Sweatshops" for the string of messages which were the source of this interchange. Janet Hi Friend, Thanks for responding to this series of messages. I have reprinted your message anonymously below mine so that Friends can understand better what we are discussing. I hope you do not take offense at my tone. Sometimes I get a little more "animated" than I intend but it is not meant personally. Actually there are usually reasons that men and women cannot do the jobs that children do. In the poorest parts of the world it commonly takes the labor of both adults and all the children over the age of about eight years old to buy or barter enough food for the family to eat. The men and women usually have work that pays a little more or requires greater strength, or is work specifically culturally assigned to women. Sometimes the children have work which adults cannot do because of the size or dexterity of the children (making expensive handmade carpets in the Middle and Near East, for example). Often children are assigned to keep track of sheep or goats as they have been for thousands of years. While that work isn't in a factory or mine, it sometimes requires that the child be alone, utterly alone, for days or weeks wherever there is enough for the animals to graze upon with no company but that of the animals. Frequently children are responsible for finding anything that will burn -- sticks, animal droppings, or peat -- for heat and cooking and must stay out day and night away from their family until they have found the amount of fuel required. Is that better than six or eight hours in a factory and a warm place to sleep at home in the evening? Insisting that there be no child labor without providing another means of providing the family with enough food to eat, or wood or animal droppings to burn for heat and cooking, or the means to care for small livestock, is worse, is even less humane, than the child labor in manufacturing that we find so reprehensible. The problem is that we North Americans/Western Europeans come into a foreign culture with our American or Western European values and experiences and see only a small part of how that culture functions and has functioned for millenia. WE then decide what is best for them and their children. Don't you think there is something awfully wrong with that? If we as Friends truly believe in equality, and as American citizens if we truly believe in democracy, where the heck do we get off making and trying to enforce such judgments and such decisions completely unaware of the havoc we wreak on those we "help"?. I appreciate your adding women's rights into the discussion. Working Women magazine did a study several years ago and found that the greatest strides for women's rights in Less Developed Countries (LDCs) seemed to be coming as a result of women working in American or European financed companies located in areas of poverty. We take our values with us when we outsource to other countries and we, as managers, often refuse to allow culturally customary sexual or class discrimination in the workplace. That sometimes spills over into the rest of the surrounding culture. The paycheck the woman receives gives her instant status and a means of protecting and feeding her children herself and may even allow her to escape an abusive situation at home. Janet (I will post this to the SAYMA kitenet list without your name and you can then claim it if you wish.) >Allowing child labor to go on is not likely to lift the children out >of poverty or improve women's rights. The most likely consequence >is that the male dominated societies will continue to take advantage >of both. > >There is no particular reason why the jobs described in the article >cannot--or should not--be done by adult women or men. While I agree >that mere opposition to child labor without paying attention to the >other concerns noted in the article is likely to be counter >productive, criticizing those who oppose child labor because >alternatives imposed on them are worse is like criticizing people >who oppose land mines because without them hostile governments might >use even worse weapons. > > From nunispablo at yahoo.com Sun Apr 11 20:24:44 2004 From: nunispablo at yahoo.com (Paul Nunis) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 17:24:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Fwd: Re: [saymaListserv] Fwd: Put Your Money Where Their Mouths Are -- Economic Justice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040412002444.18089.qmail@web13708.mail.yahoo.com> "...The problem is that we North Americans/Western Europeans come into a foreign culture with our American or Western European values and experiences and see only a small part of how that culture functions and has functioned for millenia. WE then decide what is best for them and their children." That is only one face of child and slave labor in the world today...there are others where it would be equally harmful and heartless to stand by and do nothing. And as previously mentioend, good intentions may sometimes serve to make things worse. However, it would also be patronizing in the worst extreme to tell those victims of forced labor that they don't know what they really want, when they attempt to get out of their circumstances. Rationalizations such as "That is the way it has always been", and "Who are we to interfere?" have been used to ill effect far too many times to accept them as the only word on these matters. Sometimes we cannot effect a perfect change, but that doesn't relieve us of the responsibility to try to help as we are led...do not forget, it shouldn't be 'North American' or 'Western European' values we bring to these matter's, it should be God's leadings...we need to reflect on which is which. Paul Nunis ===== " There is no standing above the conflict on Olympian heights...The artist must elect to fight for Freedom or for Slavery. I have made my choice. " Paul Robeson __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From jhminshall at comcast.net Mon Apr 12 09:47:27 2004 From: jhminshall at comcast.net (Janet Minshall) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:47:27 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Re: [saymaListserv] Fwd: Put Your Money Where Their Mouths Are -- Economic Justice In-Reply-To: <20040412002444.18089.qmail@web13708.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040412002444.18089.qmail@web13708.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Paul Nunis, Thank you again for responding. I agree that there are horrible realities of child slave labor, adult slave labor, and forced prostitution of both women and children around the world. What we started out talking about, however, was child labor as in the article I sent "Put Your Money Where Their Mouths Are" -- children in poorer countries working in manufacturing, mining or doing piecework for companies owned mostly by Americans and Western Europeans. There is a huge distinction between slave labor and that kind of child labor. It is that very distinction that I am trying to make among Friends who seem often not to see the differences. Catching, prosecuting and imprisoning slavers and forced prostitution rings is important work. Just as important, however, is economic development (globalization) where those horrible realities exist so that there are real alternatives for parents and women to selling one or more of their children or themselves in order to allow other family members to survive. People in poor countries must make "Sophie's Choice" decisions more than we realize or wish to admit. I'm afraid that sweeping aside the immense cultural differences in the world and trying to act on and institute one standard of what God wishes for us to do creates most of the major misunderstanding and violent conflict currently occurring. Janet >"...The problem is that we North Americans/Western >Europeans come into a foreign culture >with our American or Western European values and >experiences and see only a small part of how that >culture functions and has functioned for millenia. >WE then decide what is best for them and their >children." > >That is only one face of child and slave labor in the >world today...there are others where it would be >equally harmful and heartless to stand by and do >nothing. And as previously mentioend, good intentions >may sometimes serve to make things worse. > >However, it would also be patronizing in the worst >extreme to tell those victims of forced labor that >they don't know what they really want, when they >attempt to get out of their circumstances. >Rationalizations such as "That is the way it has >always been", and "Who are we to interfere?" have been >used to ill effect far too many times to accept them >as the only word on these matters. >Sometimes we cannot effect a perfect change, but that >doesn't relieve us of the responsibility to try to >help as we are led...do not forget, it shouldn't be >'North American' or 'Western European' values we bring >to these matter's, it should be God's leadings...we >need to reflect on which is which. > >Paul Nunis > >===== >" There is no standing above the conflict on Olympian heights...The >artist must elect to fight for Freedom >or for Slavery. I have made my choice. " >Paul Robeson > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th >http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From bright_crow at mindspring.com Mon Apr 12 12:29:35 2004 From: bright_crow at mindspring.com (Mike Shell) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 12:29:35 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [saymaListserv] No Child Left Behind Act: Recruiting in the Schools Message-ID: <31786046.1081787375889.JavaMail.root@wamui06.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Friends, Please read and share the information in this AFSC web report: http://www.afsc.org/youthmil/no-child.htm "The No Child Left Behind Act of 2001 contains a little-known provision that threatens the federal funding of any school refusing to turn over all students' personal contact information to military recruiters upon demand." Blessed Be, Michael. From Vmbra at aol.com Mon Apr 12 21:13:35 2004 From: Vmbra at aol.com (Vmbra at aol.com) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 21:13:35 EDT Subject: [saymaListserv] Fwd: Put Your Money Where Their Mouths Are -- Economic Ju... Message-ID: <119.316211df.2dac98bf@aol.com> Having spent a reasonable amount of time in the developing world, I'm well aware that children are often workers within traditional family settings, and that seems less artificial than the US system of assigning "chores" and meting out various rewards in response. However, child labor in factories is a different ball game entirely. I'm sorry, but I don't accept better dexterity as an excuse for child labor in factories, even if it is occasionally correct. The smaller size of children in England made them better suited for chimney sweeping than adults, but that did not make the practice right. Nor did children so employed survive well. Children working outside the home can be entirely too readily exploited (and historically have been, even if there may be some factories that are exemplary). As a practice, we should aim for decent work for adults so that their children can have the time to become literate. I am not persuaded that allowing child labor will accomplish this. cps -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhminshall at comcast.net Wed Apr 14 12:37:00 2004 From: jhminshall at comcast.net (Janet Minshall) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:37:00 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Re: [saymaListserv] Fwd: Put Your Money Where Their Mouths Are -- Economic Justice Message-ID: > >Dear SAYMA Friends. I could go on but I think this discussion has >run its course. I will respond off-line to anything further. >Thanks for your interest. Paul Nunis' message to which I am >responding appears below. > > > >Dear Paul Nunis, I have considered carefully who I am helping for >many, many years. I have worked against racism, war and oppression >in various capacities for about 50 years starting in Europe and then >in the Southern US in the late '50s. I have not intentionally >falsified or misrepresented what you have said, I have simply >responded to your messages as they appeared. You certainly sound >angry at me in what you write. Obviously, until now, I had no idea >what your race or ethnicity might be. I don't recall your ever >declaring it. > >I have shown up in the trenches at actions from 1956 on and have >been detained or arrested many times. I get myself in trouble by >telling the truth -- not by lying. But the truth I tell, and have >told for years, is truth that some really do not wish to hear. > >Every group I have ever encountered as an activist has a decision to >make about how far to push the truth before it ceases to be truth >and becomes propaganda. Some are more careful of the distinction >than others. > >I have spent time in the countries I talk about and have done the >things I claim to have done. Even those who do not like the truth I >tell will admit that if you wish corroboration. And I wrote about >my experiences in detail. I have no doubt that you have seen videos >of child and adult slavery and torture. I have too. But because I >have the experience I have, I know that those videos do not >represent most child or adult labor sites in the rest of the world. >I especially know that they do not represent the work sites of those >who are employed as the result of outsourcing from the US or Western >Europe. > >Please don't pull the self-righteous stuff with me: > >>Feel free to hold whatever views you wish, but when >>you attack those who are actually working to stop the >>real slavery in the world, do not be surprised if your >>claims to be on a mission from God are treated with >>less reverence than you would wish. > >I have never claimed to be on a mission from God except as God has >given me a conscience. I have actually worked to stop the real >slavery in the world for a very long time. And I have never asked >for reverence of any kind. Only openness. > >Paul Nunis, because you do not know anything about me or my past >work I have no problem responding to your projections. Just know >that they are your projections and not objective reality. Janet >Minshall > > > > >Paul Nunis wrote: > >>Please consider who you are helping by resorting to >>such debate tactics as falsifying what I have said, or >>making up fraudulent accusatons that I am angry, or >>that I am a pawn of US labor...white people are always >>so quick to accuse minorities of being out of control >>when they state their case, you do yourself a >>disservice by adopting those tactics to marginalize >>words you would rather not hear. >>I think that if you had showed up for any of the CIW >>or other actions and spent some time with me in the >>trenches, you would not be so quick to post in a >>public format slanderous things about who I am, what I >>believe, what I have done, or what I stand for. >> >>At no time have I ever said that poor countries where >>children are expected to work hard so that the family >>can subsist need to be held to a western standard, and >>yet you have wrongly implied that I have taken that >>position. >> >>Then conversely, you persist in the 'Friendly' >>tradition of refusing to look at the videotaped proof >>that child and adult labor in sweatshops, and slavery >>are far too often one and the same thing. The notions >>that the videos at witness.org, were manufactured as a >>polished piece of propaganda by US labor, or that the >>worlswide epidemic of forced prostitution and slavery >>is merely a case of myself being to stupid to know >>reality, would be laughable, if they weren't directly >>resposnible for so many people being abused. >> >>Feel free to hold whatever views you wish, but when >>you attack those who are actually working to stop the >>real slavery in the world, do not be surprised if your >>claims to be on a mission from God are treated with >>less reverence than you would wish. >> >>Paul Nunis >> >>--- Janet Minshall wrote: >>> Paul Nunis, Your anger is misdirected. I do >>> not in any way >>> support child slavery nor any other form or sort of >>> slavery. I think >>> that is quite clear from what I have written. >>> >>> You mention Japanese and Korean companies completely >>> ignoring that I >>> said "MOSTLY owned by Americans and Western >>> Europeans." >>> Neither children nor adults working in the so-called >>> sweatshops I >>> have observed first hand have been chained or >>> mistreated in any of >>> the sites I have seen. When questioned privately >>> well away from >>> others, those who worked at those sites said that >>> conditions in their >>> workplaces were good, even when foreign observers >>> left, and far >>> better than the working conditions in other similar >>> places of >>> employment in their area. >>> >>> The amount of aid money coopted by corrupt tribal >>> leaders, >>> beaurocrats and government representatives is >>> rapidly diminishing. >>> Foreign economic development projects have fewer and >>> fewer ways of >>> being coopted -- though cooptation is not >>> impossible. It happens >>> frequently in this country. For the most part the >>> thievery of >> > corrupt governments of money intended to feed and >>> employ the poor is >>> costing those governments any access to economic >>> development >>> assistance and loans. For that reason, those >>> governments, >>> bureauocracies and tribes are beginning to learn and >>> follow the rules. >>> >>> I'm afraid that you have taken a very real set of >>> problems that >>> exist, including child and adult slavery, torture >>> and forced >>> prostitution, and overgeneralized them to the point >>> where you believe >>> in a reality which simply does not exist on anything >>> like the scale >>> you imagine. Child labor is not child slavery and >>> adult labor in >>> so-called sweatshops is not adult slavery. And >>> torture and forced >>> prostitution are not the lot of most of the people >>> of the world who >>> wish to be employed by American and Western >>> Equropean companies which >>> outsource their manufacturing work. >>> >>> Your vision of the world is one which has been >>> manufactured and >>> polished by a few representatives of the US Labor >>> Movement in an >>> effort to confuse and distort reality in hopes of >>> making us believe >>> that it is far more humane to keep high paying jobs >>> in the US and >>> limit them to American workers than to share them >>> with the rest of >>> the world. I have always, in the past, supported the >>> labor movement >>> but this kind of distortion and misrepresentation is >>> reprehensible. >>> >>> Please consider the possibility that it is not I who >>> has lost the >>> ability to tell right from wrong. Janet >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >--- Janet Minshall wrote: >>> >> Dear Paul Nunis, >>> >> -- children in poorer countries working in >>> >> manufacturing, mining or doing >>> >> piecework for companies owned mostly by >>> Americans >>> >> and Western Europeans. >>> > >>> >I wasn't aware that Sony, Toyota, Mitsubishi and >>> the >>> >other companies who use burakumen were owned mostly >>> by >>> >Americans or Western Europeans, nor do I consider >>> >Japan, Korea, et al. to be 3rd world countries. As >>> I >>> >pointed out, there is more than one face to child >>> >labor. >>> > >>> >> There is a huge distinction between >>> >> slave labor and that kind of child labor. It is >>> >> that very distinction that I am trying to >>> >> make among Friends who seem often not to see the >>> >> differences. >>> > >>> >Have you viewed the Witness.org videos that I have >>> >spent the better part of the last decade posting to >>> >every Quaker group that I could find? >>> >Calling it just a sweatshop, or just the usual way >>> of >>> >life when children (and adults) are chained, caged, >>> >whipped, raped, tortured, separated from their >> > >families and so forth doesn't make it any less >>> >slavery. >>> >And as the videos amply demonstrate, as soon as >>> >visitors leave the 'sweatshops', the chains come >>> back >>> >out, the safety devices are removed, the doors are >>> >locked, and the slavery resumes. >>> > >>> >Having Western observers report back that things >>> >aren't so bad, its just that we comfortable >>> Americans >>> >can't appreciate their hard working way of life, is >>> >just another tactic that the slave masters have >>> used >>> >to keep on profitting from *their* way of life. It >>> was >>> >used to great success in previous slave countries >>> when >>> >anti-abolitionists (among them Quakers) explained >>> to >>> >others, as though they were lecturing a slow child, >>> >that 'the Negro isn't suited for he kind of life >>> that >>> >you and I live'. >>> > >>> > >>> >> Catching, prosecuting and imprisoning slavers >>> and >>> >> forced prostitution rings is important work. >>> >> Just as important, however, is economic >>> >> development (globalization) where those horrible >>> >> realities exist so that there are real >>> >> alternatives for parents and women to selling >>> one >>> >> or more of their children or themselves in order >>> to >>> >> allow other family members to survive. People in >>> >> poor countries must make "Sophie's Choice" >>> >> decisions more than we realize or wish to admit. >>> > >>> >It is two sides of the same coin...the same >>> >politicians, bureaucrats, and rulers who turn a >>> blind >>> >eye to slavery and forced labor in their countries, >>> >also take aid money and spend it on weapons, and >> > turn >>> >every attempt at globalization into a way to secure >>> >their own power. New mantras will not change human >>> >nature. >>> > >>> >> I'm afraid that sweeping aside the immense >>> cultural >>> >> differences in the world and trying to act on >>> >> and institute one standard of what God >>> >> wishes for us to do creates most of the major >>> >> misunderstanding and violent conflict currently >>> >> occurring. Janet >>> > >>> >And I am afraid that the inability to tell right >>> from >>> >wrong allows us to excuse inaction, and finally to >>> >condemn actions that are consistent with any >>> culture's >>> >moral code. >>> >I would ask you...if all of these other countries >>> are >>> >merely doing things the way they have always been >>> >done, why do they now need the guns, and the >>> chains, >>> >and the whips? >>> > >>> >Paul >>> > >>> > >>> >>=== message truncated === >> >> >> >> >> >>__________________________________ >>Do you Yahoo!? >>Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th >>http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From nunispablo at yahoo.com Wed Apr 14 15:34:04 2004 From: nunispablo at yahoo.com (Paul Nunis) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:34:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Fwd: Re: [saymaListserv] Fwd: Put Your Money Where Their Mouths Are -- Economic Justice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040414193404.16813.qmail@web13705.mail.yahoo.com> With the typical blame the victim tactics of a bully, Janet proclaims me to be a pawn of the US Labor movement and too stupid to know the reality of labor conditions in other countries. She then annouces that she will hit and run, by refusing to respond to my protests over her outright and knowingly slanderous lies. That is of course, her right, as it is of any bully, and I have no doubt that she will continue to avail herself of it. For those who only know me through Janet's slanderous and completely fabricated statements, I would be happy if you understood that I have been working for civil rights since I stood against National Guard troops in the 1960's in Greensboro (Janet was nowhere to be seen), through activism during Vietnam (again, I cannot recall Janet being next to me when I marched, OR when I served as a non-combatant, instead of sending a black man to go in my place, like those who enjoyed an exemption)...through rescue squad work in poverty stricken Southern counties, to marching with Immokalee workers to protest forced agricultural labor conditions, to poll watching, to helping write position papers for Friends against the death penalty, to research and activism on police abuse of force, and in my current work to end slavery in the Czech Republic, and all the other places documented by witness.org...the group that Janet claims is polished propaganda for US interests..I would invite Friends to look at the videos on the Witness web site, and see who is telling the truth here. In any case, I will not stand meekly by and allow hate mongers to usurp the place that Friends have traditionally stood in, by using lies and hatred to disrupt the much needed work of helping others. And if the kind of life I have led, or the positions I hold are antithetical to the popularity contest that Janet wants to win, then I will be only to happy to continue my work without 'Friends' who never show up when they are needed, and only sit back and snipe at those who are trying to do something. Paul Nunis ===== " There is no standing above the conflict on Olympian heights...The artist must elect to fight for Freedom or for Slavery. I have made my choice. " Paul Robeson __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From glencanyon at comcast.net Wed Apr 14 16:06:21 2004 From: glencanyon at comcast.net (David Orr) Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:06:21 -0400 Subject: [saymaListserv] Fwd: Put Your Money Where Their Mouths Are -- Economic Justice In-Reply-To: <20040414193404.16813.qmail@web13705.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hello Friends, May I ask, who is the listowner of this list? I wish to contact her/him. Thanks, David Orr Knoxville, TN From bright_crow at mindspring.com Thu Apr 15 10:10:40 2004 From: bright_crow at mindspring.com (Mike Shell) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 10:10:40 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [saymaListserv] FWD: "A View from the Arab World, " Rami G. Khouri (Beirut) Message-ID: <29317796.1082038240766.JavaMail.root@wamui03.slb.atl.earthlink.net> For use April 14-20, 2004 A View from the Arab World By Rami G. Khouri, in Beirut, Lebanon Concord, Lexington, Fallujah and Najaf: Why folks fight Ever since the Anglo-American armada overthrew the former Iraqi government of Saddam Hussein a year ago, and resistance attacks against US forces proved particularly persistent in the area of the town of Fallujah, the American media for the most part has tended to refer to the "restive" town of Fallujah. Well, it seems that Fallujah and other parts of Iraq are more than "restive" ­ they're downright rebellious. And so are many other cities in Iraq where young men for the past week have fought street battles with the United States' armed forces, eventually forcing the US to cease fire and allow Iraqi politicians to negotiate a resolution of the confrontations. I am intrigued by several fascinating aspects of events in Iraq. The first is the clumsy attitude of the United States, which is proving why it has never been a serious colonial power. Its heavy-handed reliance on military power, combined with its naïve tendency to want to make everyone free and happy like the folks in America itself, makes it impossible to embrace the US as a benign ruler or ever temporary administrator or protector. The more the US uses its military force, the stronger and wider becomes the resistance to it. Can some smart general in Florida ­ of whom there are many -- please feed that into his or her computer and draw a reasonable conclusion? The US was forced to initiate a cease-fire in Fallujah and also in southern religious cities like Najaf, where it was fighting against supporters of the Shiite radical leader Moqtada al-Sadr. The amazing thing is that in both cases the US found itself fighting against armed enemies who had come into being purely because of the US presence in Iraq. This is not a case of the "they hate us because of our freedom" nonsense that President Bush and his supporters have tried to push on a naïve American public. It is rather a case of Iraqis fighting against the US because they are sick and tired of the heavy-handed manner in which the US is trying to reshape Iraqi society according to American rules and values. Fallujah proved to be "restive" in the same manner that Concorde and Lexington were restive in late 18th Century America. Iraqis who are happy to be rid of the former dictator Saddam Hussein are saying that they want to determine their own future, without orders and dictates from people like Paul Bremer, however well intentioned the American nation-building effort may be. In fact a tragedy of the US' predicament in Iraq is that it is so romantically well intentioned, seeking as it does to make Iraq a replica of Ohio in its values and living conditions. Another fascinating aspect of Washington's behavior in Iraq is its dire confusion about whom precisely it is fighting. In Fallujah the "enemy" is not clear, because the resistance to the US military presence seems to be diffused among much of the population. Hey, but that's how things are in "restive" towns facing foreign military occupation. You don't need to go to the Rotary Club and local Women's Auxiliary to find out what people feel, if you take the time and make the effort to listen to what ordinary people are saying. "Give me liberty or give me death" is a good starting point for this exercise. In the case of the fighting against Moqtada al-Sadr's supporters, this represents the third time in the last few years that the United States ­ the greatest power in the history of the world ­ finds itself in dynamic military or political confrontation with a single bearded man. The other two cases recently were Osama bin Laden and Ayatollah Ali Sistani in Iraq. The Sistani confrontation was political, not military. When he brought hundreds of thousands of Iraqis into the streets several months ago to protest some particulars of the American plans for a constitutional transition in Iraq, the Americans wisely pulled back politically and negotiated with Sistani. That was a smart move, one of the few Washington has made in Iraq. The confrontation with Moqtada al-Sadr has been brewing for months, but erupted into active fighting only after the US took measures against his supporters, such as arresting one of his deputies and closing his newspaper. Those actions and the American move to arrest al-Sadr sparked an armed rebellion where none existed before. More intriguing than the Americans' tendency to foment rebellions with their heavy-handedness is their peculiar insistence on not living in the real world, and fighting enemies of their own make-believe creation. For a year now we have heard American generals in Iraq and political leaders in Washington rattle off a string of people who are engaged in fighting against the US in Iraq, and the list keeps expanding endlessly, and evolving almost miraculously. First we were told the fighting was by remnants of the Baathist regime, the dead-enders who had nothing to lose. Then it was the problem of isolated angry men in the "restive Sunni triangle" north of Baghdad. We were asked to believe that criminals were hired to fight the US. We then heard of Islamist terrorists infiltrating Iraq from other parts of the world. After that we were asked to believe that the problem was one of sympathetic Arabs from Syria and other adjacent lands. Then Iran was fingered as the real source of the problem of people shooting Americans and blowing up Iraqis. More recently we have been told that the problem is one of a small band of thugs supporting Moqtada al-Sadr. And in the coming days we are almost certainly going to hear more novel explanations for why a simple people like the Iraqis keep fighting against the presence of 130,000 American troops who are telling them daily what to do and what not to do. Why is it so difficult for a people like Americans who love freedom to understand that Iraqis also love freedom and detest being treated like children who have to grow up according to rules written and enforced by generals from Florida and Ohio? Why does a country as powerful and otherwise great as the United States refuse to accept that it is rejected as a foreign military occupier, however benign its self-stated motives? The last significant aspect of what is happening these days is that the United States is now negotiating with the same thugs, criminals, terrorists and dead-enders whom it has been fighting for a year. These Iraqis and many others in the country will inherit political power in due course, and they will determine their own future governance system and national values. The United States should learn the lessons of its past year in Iraq, bask in the glory of its liberating Iraqis from a killer regime, take a bow before the world for its noble deed, and go home with dignity, leaving behind a credible international and Iraqi mechanism by which Iraqis can ensure their security and define their own future condition. Things turned out OK in Concord and Lexington when the British troops left, and things will turn out OK in restive Iraqi towns when their natives can control their own lives as well. @2004 Rami G. Khouri Rami G. Khouri The Daily Star POBox 11-987 Gemaizeh Beirut, Lebanon Tel: (office) 961 1 587277 email: rami.khouri at dailystar.com.lb or, rgskhouri at hotmail.com From reddeanna at charter.net Thu Apr 15 21:01:18 2004 From: reddeanna at charter.net (Red & Deanna) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:01:18 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] SAYMA bookstore Message-ID: <003f01c4234e$53e9a9a0$e1aa9e18@D714S421> Greetings, Friends, The bookstore will again be open during SAYMA's Yearly Meeting. We'll need volunteers! And I would like to line some up in advance if possible. Here are the dates, times, and jobs. Thursday, June 10 9 AM - 12 noon unpack and organize books by subject 9:30 PM - 10:30 PM accept payment Friday, June 11 11 AM - 12 noon accept payment 1 - 2:20 PM accept payment 2:20 - 3:45 PM accept payment 3:45 - 5:30 PM accept payment 6:30 - 7:00 PM accept payment 9:30 - 10:30 PM accept payment Saturday, June 12 1:15 - 2:20 PM accept payment 2:20 - 3:45 PM accept payment 3:45 - 5:30 PM accept payment 6:30 - 7:00 PM accept payment Sunday, June 13 9 AM - 12 noon repack for shipment If you would like a chance to "mind the store," contact me at reddeanna at charter.net and let me know your name, e-mail address, and time you would like to serve. It's a wonderful thing to be in a room filled with books and Quakers! Volunteers last year all talked about what an enjoyable experience it was. See you in June. Peace, Deanna Nipp Bookstore Coordinator reddeanna at charter.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kcarlyle at main.nc.us Fri Apr 16 09:01:24 2004 From: kcarlyle at main.nc.us (Kim Carlyle) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 09:01:24 -0400 Subject: [saymaListserv] SAF Message-ID: <002201c423b2$eca4f140$b56dc0d1@qew> Dear Friends, The latest issue of our YM newsletter, "The Southern Appalachian Friend," was sent this week to more than ninety e-mail subscribers. Paper copies will be mailed to meetings and worship groups today. If you aren't already an e-mail subscriber but would like to enjoy the comfort and convenience of home delivery, you can subscribe by sending a message with your name and the name of your meeting to: SAFeditor at sayma.org. Electronic subscriptions save paper, printing, and postage expenses, and trees too! Thanks. -- SAF eds. From bright_crow at mindspring.com Tue Apr 20 13:46:36 2004 From: bright_crow at mindspring.com (Mike Shell) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:46:36 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [saymaListserv] FWD: Media and Falloojeh... Message-ID: <13532735.1082483197185.JavaMail.root@wamui08.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Friends, >From a powerful weblog ("blog") maintained by an Iraqi native who calls herself Riverbend. Blessed Be, Michael. ------------------------------------------- Baghdad Burning http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/ ... I'll meet you 'round the bend my friend, where hearts can heal and souls can mend... Wednesday, April 14, 2004 Media and Falloojeh... There has been a lot of criticism about the way Al-Arabia and Al-Jazeera were covering the riots and fighting in Falloojeh and the south this last week. Some American spokesman for the military was ranting about the "spread of anti-Americanism" through networks like the abovementioned. Actually, both networks did a phenomenal job of covering the attacks on Falloojeh and the southern provinces. Al-Jazeera had their reporter literally embedded in the middle of the chaos- and I don't mean the lame embedded western journalists type of thing they had going at the beginning of the war (you know- embedded in the Green Zone and embedded in Kuwait, etc.). Ahmed Mansur, I believe his name was, was actually standing there, in the middle of the bombing, shouting to be heard over the F-16s and helicopters blasting away at houses and buildings. It brought back the days of 'shock and awe'... I know it bothers the CPA terribly to have the corpses of dead Iraqis shown on television. They would love for Al-Jazeera and Al-Arabia to follow Al-Hurra's example and show endless interviews with pro-occupation Iraqis living abroad and speaking in stilted Arabic. These interviews, of course, are interspersed with translated documentaries on the many marvels of... Hollywood. And while I, personally, am very interested in the custom leather interiors of the latest Audi, I couldn't seem to draw myself away from Al-Jazeera and Al-Arabia while 700+ Iraqis were being killed. To lessen the feelings of anti-Americanism, might I make a few suggestions? Stop the collective punishment. When Mark Kimmett stutters through a press conference babbling about "precision weapons" and "military targets" in Falloojeh, who is he kidding? Falloojeh is a small city made up of low, simple houses, little shops and mosques. Is he implying that the 600 civilians who died during the bombing and the thousands injured and maimed were all "insurgents"? Are houses, shops and mosques now military targets? What I'm trying to say is that we don't need news networks to make us angry or frustrated. All you need to do is talk to one of the Falloojeh refugees making their way tentatively into Baghdad; look at the tear-stained faces, the eyes glazed over with something like shock. In our neighborhood alone there are at least 4 families from Falloojeh who have come to stay with family and friends in Baghdad. The stories they tell are terrible and grim and it's hard to believe that they've gone through so much. I think western news networks are far too tame. They show the Hollywood version of war- strong troops in uniform, hostile Iraqis being captured and made to face "justice" and the White House turkey posing with the Thanksgiving turkey... which is just fine. But what about the destruction that comes with war and occupation? What about the death? I don't mean just the images of dead Iraqis scattered all over, but dead Americans too. People should *have* to see those images. Why is it not ok to show dead Iraqis and American troops in Iraq, but it's fine to show the catastrophe of September 11 over and over again? I wish every person who emails me supporting the war, safe behind their computer, secure in their narrow mind and fixed views, could actually come and experience the war live. I wish they could spend just 24 hours in Baghdad today and hear Mark Kimmett talk about the death of 700 "insurgents" like it was a proud day for Americans everywhere... Still, when I hear talk about "anti-Americanism" it angers me. Why does American identify itself with its military and government? Why is does being anti-Bush and anti-occupation have to mean that a person is anti-American? We watch American movies, listen to everything from Britney Spears to Nirvana and refer to every single brown, fizzy drink as "Pepsi". I hate American foreign policy and its constant meddling in the region... I hate American tanks in Baghdad and American soldiers on our streets and in our homes on occasion... why does that mean that I hate America and Americans? Are tanks, troops and violence the only face of America? If the Pentagon, Department of Defense and Condi are "America", then yes- I hate America. - posted by river @ 8:10 PM From freepolazzo at comcast.net Wed Apr 21 10:29:13 2004 From: freepolazzo at comcast.net (free polazzo) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:29:13 -0400 Subject: [saymaListserv] QOF Q-Dove logo Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040421102805.02a6aa78@mail.comcast.net> Hi Friends, Got this logo from the Quaker Outreach Forum website and thought you might like to add it to your collection. Peace, QOF Q-Dove logo.jpg Free "The greatest ally of injustice is silence" -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: QOF Q-Dove logo1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 10497 bytes Desc: not available URL: From listener at bellsouth.net Wed Apr 21 20:50:51 2004 From: listener at bellsouth.net (Kit Potter) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:50:51 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] A reason for US Govt. deficits? Message-ID: <002a01c42803$dbc46270$6701a8c0@heyoka> GAO Report Finds Most U.S. Corporations Paid No U.S. Taxes A study released by the General Accounting Office last week found that during the period 1996-2000 more than half of U.S. corporations paid no federal income tax. According to the study, 71 percent of foreign-controlled corporations and 61 percent of U.S.-controlled corporations reported no tax liability during the period investigated. GAO conducted the report at the request of Senators Byron Dorgan (D-ND) and Carl Levin (D-MI). The report updates an earlier GAO study regarding taxes paid by U.S. and foreign-controlled corporations during the period 1986-1995. In response to the report's findings, Sen. Dorgan, Ranking Member on the Senate Commerce, Science, and Transportation Committee, said the report presents "stark evidence" that "gaping loopholes" exist in the current tax code, which enable "foreign-based companies to move billions of dollars in profit overseas, on income generated in the United States." Stating, "It is troubling how few corporations, foreign or domestic, pay taxes," Sen. Dorgan said it is "particularly unacceptable that a significantly smaller percentage of foreign-based corporations ... are paying any tax at all." According to the report, transfer pricing abuses are one reason for the failure of corporations to report any tax liability. Corporations also use tax credits and operating losses from current or prior years to offset their tax liability, the report found. GAO found that over 90 percent of U.S. corporations paid taxes amounting to less than five percent of their total income for the period, including 80 percent of large U.S.-controlled corporations with assets of $250 million or gross receipts of $50 million. The report states that although large corporations file only one percent of corporate returns, they own more than 93 percent of reported assets. For foreign-controlled corporations, GAO found that 89 percent overall, and 76 percent of large corporations, paid less than five percent of their income in taxes during the period. GAO said the differences in taxes paid by U.S. and foreign-controlled companies may be the result of non-tax differences in the corporations, such as industry category and age, but transfer pricing abuses are also a significant contributing factor. A copy of the report, Comparison of the Reported Tax Liabilities of Foreign - and - U.S. - Controlled Corporations, 1996-2000, may be found on the GAO website at http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d04358.pdf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pennywright at earthlink.net Thu Apr 22 12:13:48 2004 From: pennywright at earthlink.net (Penelope Wright) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 11:13:48 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] Yearly Meeting Oppportunities for Service Message-ID: <01ce01c42884$ccd32400$130110ac@oemcomputer> Dear Friends, As Adult/Evening Program Coordinator I extend to you and your meetings some opportunities for service at this year's yearly meeting sessions. Friends have been generous in coming forward in past years for this service and I trust that they will again. However, if I have not heard from anyone by April 28, we will not be able to inlcude this information in the program to be distributed at registration. Nor can we be sure that any of the opportunities will be available. In Faith, Penelope Wright Serving as convenor or co-convenor of: Men's Center Women's Center Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgendered and Queer Friends Centers: Last year, Yearly Meeting Planning Committee instituted dedicated Centers for Women and for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender and Queer Friends (a convenor did not come forward for a Men's Center). Response was favorable and we would like to do so again this year. This is a call for Friends who are led to convene or share convening duties* for Women?s, Men?s, or LGBTQ Centers. Please let Penelope Wright know by April 28th. Please note these centers are separate from the Nurturing Center provided by Ministry & Nurture Committee. * Convenors gather together Friends interested in the respective centers and plan what the center will be for this year. The space will not be used by other groups. Chat 'n Chew Thursday Evening Friday Evening Saturday Evening Chat 'n Chew: We are grateful to the monthly meetings that came forward to provide Chat 'n Chew snacks last year. They were Asheville, Nashville, and Swannanoa Valley. It seems only fair to let other meetings share this opportunity to provide this much appreciated service for Friends. Times: Thursday, Friday and Saturday evenings from 9:00 until 10 or 11:00 PM. Type of snacks: fruit, popcorn and cookies are the most popular; hot water for teas, hot chocolate and some kind of juice. Quantities sufficient for 20-30 Friends. Other: The designated host meeting needs to be sure all food and drink are put away after closing time. Also remind Friends to refrain from eating/drinking while browsing the nearby Book Store tables. Please ask for volunteers from your meeting and let Penelope Wright pennywright at earthlink.net or 615-298-1385 by April 28th whether your meeting can host one evening of Chat 'n Chew. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhminshall at comcast.net Mon Apr 26 08:57:59 2004 From: jhminshall at comcast.net (Janet Minshall) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:57:59 -0400 Subject: [saymaListserv] Quaker Misrepresentations on Sweatshops, etc from Friends Journal Message-ID: > >THE QUAKER ECONOMIST (DRAFT) > >Letter No. 101 > >April 30, 2004 > >NOTE: If you write to TQE for subscription or comments, please use a >subject ("TQE" will do). If I do not recognize the subject OR the person >writing me, I will delete letters unread, for fear of you-know-what. > >Economics by innuendo > >One "skill" that our Quaker organizations have handsomely learned is >"economics by innuendo." This technique consists of making sly remarks >about the economy, emphasizing a particular slant with which the reading >audience presumably will agree. It is often accompanied by errors in >economic history that have been popularly adopted. David Morse's "A >Quaker Response to Economic Globalization" (Friends Journal, May 2004) >exhibits both the innuendoes and the errors. > >I understand that The New Yorker checks out the accuracy of all >statements in all articles that it publishes. Apparently Friends Journal >"seeks the truth" less than does The New Yorker. Many economists exist >in the Society of Friends (including me; FJ knows about me) who >apparently were not consulted before publication of David's article. Had >we been consulted, and if FJ had sought the truth, it would have turned >down this article. > >Let me start with the incorrect statements. "What our press touts as >'free trade' is, in reality, an elaborate set of rules written by >large-scale international organizations to give them a competitive >advantage over small-scale local operations" (p.9). Utterly untrue. The >rules of free trade are generally worked out by consulting governments, >with the World Trade Organization. The WTO has often reached decisions >that affect "large-scale international organizations" adversely. The >decision in the "foreign trade corporations" case went against the >United States, and if implemented properly, multinational corporations >will lose billions of dollars of tax advantages they once held. So also >the decision on steel tariffs forced President Bush to renounce these >ill-advised tariffs, a move that was very costly to U.S. steel >companies. Some decisions favor corporations; others disfavor them. >There is no general pattern. > >Another falsehood (p. 8): "How do we picture the windowless carpet >factories in Nepal, where young children work in bondage and sleep under >their looms; the slave-worked chocolate plantations; the sweatshops >where Nike shoes are produced?" David presents this picture without >naming a single such factory. It is my understanding that these children >do not work under bondage (except to their parents), and I know of no >slave-worked chocolate plantations. These jobs are taken by free choice, >meaning that the alternative (in the eyes of the workers) is worse. > >"Sweatshops," as we know them, are the universal type of factory >employing unskilled workers throughout the less developed world, and not >caused by U.S. corporate policies. If we boycott them, we drive their >workers into more harmful conditions (prostitution, factories less safe, >etc.) Economists have done studies to show that this is the case. David >has apparently not heard of them. The way to upgrade labor (and wages) >is through training to increase worker skills, not through Quakers >wringing our hands thousands of miles away. > >A misrepresentation (not necessarily untrue): NAFTA created low-payiung >assembly jobs for Mexicans. But some 200,000 of those jobs disappeared >since 2001 --- mostly to China, where labor is paid one-fourth as much." >Why? Because Mexican wages had risen to become higher than Chinese. And >what does David have against the Chinese, who need jobs as much as the >Mexicans? So long as they take these jobs voluntarily (which they do), >they believe they are better than alternative work. > >""Bolivia , for instance – and insist that it reduce inflation by >tightening the money supply,. . ." As an economic advisor to the >Bolivian National Stabilization Council in 1960 (to fight inflation), I >have a different perspective. The Bolivian government had printed money >to feed its cronies and was loaned funds by the United States and the >International Monetary Fund provided it balance its budget. To do so, it >required cutting down on government expenditures, just as any bank would >care about the credit rating of its borrowers. > >Should I admit that for eight years I worked for the International >Monetary Fund? I can assure you that my colleagues (who were apparently >not consulted for this article) and I never considered the Fund to be an >imperialist organization. Its duty was to help governments whose bad >(corrupt) policies had caused balance-of-payments deficits, by insisting >that good policies replace the bad. > >Some minor errors persist, such as that the World Trade Organization was >"Bretton-Woods inspired. . ." The WTO was actually founded fifty years >after the Bretton Woods conference that created the IMF and World Bank. > >Let me now turn to the innuendoes. "We must identify the seeds of >violence that are scattered in the wake of U.S.-style hypercapitalism >when it is forced on the world" (p. 8). This innuendo could be refuted >with examples, but it should never have been made in the first place >without examples. > >"Clearly, we need to examine as a society what is meant by such terms as >"marginal" and "efficiency. Do they reflect the social costs and the >environmental consequences? (p. 9)" These are technical terms in >economics, that have specific meanings. Sometimes they reflect social >costs and environmental consequences, and sometimes they do not, >depending on the author who uses them. Here, however, David hints that >they are always used as tools of a hypercapitalist society, which is a >complete distortion. > >Remaining innuendoes, which permeate the article, are too long to merit >quotation here. > >I wish to inform the Friends Journal that (along with many other Quaker >economists) I am available for consultation and review in case any >article on economics is submitted. > >Sincerely your friend, > >Jack Powelson > >ABOUT TQE > >RSVP: Write to “tqe-comment,” followed by "@quaker.org" to comment on >this or any future Letter. Use as Subject the number of the Letter to >which you refer. Permission to publish your comment is presumed unless >you say otherwise. Please keep it short. Letters over approximately 100 >words will be returned without being read. PLEASE MENTION YOUR HOME >MEETING OR CHURCH (if any; not required) and your location. > >To see earlier issues, visit http://tqe.quaker.org/ . > >To subscribe, at no cost (or unsubscribe) send an emil letter (subject >"subscribe," but no text necessary) to tqe-subscribe (or >tqe-unsubscribe), followed by "@quaker.org". (I say "followed by" to >interrupt the address, so it will not be picked up by SPAM senders.) If >you want to see earlier Letters, or if you want to see any letter in >HTML format (including this one), which is clearer than the present text >format, visit http://tqe.quaker.org . > >The Quaker Economist is copyright. However, you have permission to >forward it to your friends (Quaker or no) as you wish and invite them to >subscribe at no cost. Please mention The Quaker Economist as you do so, >and tell your recipient how to find it. > >The Quaker Economist is not designed to persuade anyone of anything >(although viewpoints are expressed). Its purpose is to stimulate >discussions, both electronically and within Meetings. > >PUBLISHER AND EDITORIAL BOARD > >Publisher, Russ Nelson, St. Lawrence Valley (NY) Friends Meeting >Editorial Board: >Chuck Fager, Director, Quaker House, Fayetteville, N.C. >Virginia Flagg, San Diego (CA) Friends Meeting >Valerie Ireland, Boulder (CO) Friends Meeting. >Asa Janney, Herndon (VA) Meeting. >Jack Powelson, Boulder (CO) Meeting of Friends, Principal Editor >Norval Reece, Newtown (PA) Friends Meeting. >J.D. von Pischke, a Friend from Reston (VA). >John Spears, Princeton (NJ) Friends Meeting >Geoffrey Williams, Attender at New York Fifteenth Street Meeting. >Members of the Editorial Board receive Letters a week in advance for >their criticisms, but they do not necessarily endorse the contents of >any of them. From pennywright at earthlink.net Mon Apr 26 11:41:57 2004 From: pennywright at earthlink.net (Penelope Wright) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:41:57 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] Fw: Upcoming Conference Message-ID: <002301c42ba5$0351b0a0$130110ac@oemcomputer> Forwarding this opportunity to SAYMA Friends as I have been aware of its coming into being through my work with FGC's Ministry and Nurture Committee. Penelope Wright Don't miss this opportunity!!! Register before May 1st and save $25 The American Friends Service Committee and The Faith Action Network Present: Together in Faith: Journey into Inclusiveness www.togetherinfaith.com May 22, 2004 A national, multiracial, multigenerational conference for people of all religions and spiritualities creating communities affirming of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender rights, identities and families. www.togetherinfaith.com Ypsilanti Michigan, "Together in Faith" will bring together LGBT and Ally people of all ages, races, religions and spiritualities for skill-enhancing workshops. Presenters include: Rev. Mel White, Director of Soulforce; Dr. John Corvino; Raven Kaldera, neo pagan spiritual leader, Dr. Sylvia Rhue, Director of Equal Partners in Faith; Faisal Alam, Director of AL-FATIHA; Macha NightMare, Acharya Swami Durga Das and many many more! Register by May 1st for a reduced rate of $100 or $75 low income/student rate (includes breakfast, lunch, dinner) Visit www.togetherinfaith.com or call (734) 761-8283 ext.3 for more information. Amanda Sharrai AFSC Conference Coordinator Check out our conference at www.togetherinfaith.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pennywright at earthlink.net Mon Apr 26 22:51:13 2004 From: pennywright at earthlink.net (Penelope Wright) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 21:51:13 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] Only 2 more days to volunteer! Message-ID: <006401c42c02$822d9a80$130110ac@oemcomputer> Friends, don't let these opportunities for service at Yearly Meeting slip away from you! Thursday evening Chat 'n Chew Convenor (or cos) of a Women's Center Convenor (or cos) of a Men's Center To our regret, we will not be able to hold space for centers if no one confirms that they can assist in convening them by the 28th. Please contact Penelope Wright at pennywright at earthlink.net if you are led to be of assistance to Friends. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhminshall at comcast.net Tue Apr 27 11:27:13 2004 From: jhminshall at comcast.net (Janet Minshall) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:27:13 -0400 Subject: [saymaListserv] Fwd: misrepresentations, innuendos and errors on sweatshops, globalization and economics in Friends Journal article Message-ID: This is a followup on the message sent by me yesterday, 4-26-04, the main body of which was a draft of an article by Jack Powelson on misrepresentations, innuendos and errors in an article printed in Friends Journal's May '04 issue, "A Quaker Response to Economic Globalization" by David Morse. This is the version submitted to Friends Journal today and includes new information. J. >Here is the article as submitted to FJ: > >Economics by Innuendo and Error > >By Jack Powelson > >Sometimes Friends, in their eagerness to be of assistance to the less >fortunate, oversimplify factual circumstances and over-sentimentalize >the solutions. While we as Friends are correct to sympathize with those >in need and do what we can to help, we must always strive to act in >light of actual circumstances of various situations in order to offer >real, long-term solutions. Otherwise, we risk being counterproductive -- >making the problems worse. > >This eagerness has led to one "skill" that our Quaker organizations have >handsomely learned: economics by innuendo and error. This technique >consists of making sly remarks about the economy, emphasizing a >particular slant with which the reading audience is presumed to agree. >It is often accompanied by errors in economic history that have been >popularly believed. David Morse's "A Quaker Response to Economic >Globalization" (Friends Journal, May 2004) exhibits both these >innuendoes and the errors. > >I understand that The New Yorker checks out the accuracy of all >statements in all articles that it publishes. Apparently Friends Journal >"seeks the truth" less than does The New Yorker. Many economists exist >in the Society of Friends (including me) who apparently were not >consulted before publication of David's article. Had we been consulted, >and if FJ had sought the truth, it would have turned down this article. > >Let me start with the incorrect statements. "What our press touts as >'free trade' is, in reality, an elaborate set of rules written by >large-scale international organizations to give them a competitive >advantage over small-scale local operations" (p.9). Utterly untrue. The >rules of free trade are generally worked out by consulting governments, >with the World Trade Organization. The WTO has often reached decisions >that affect "large-scale international organizations" adversely. The >decision in the "foreign trade corporations" case went against the >United States, and if implemented properly, multinational corporations >will lose billions of dollars of tax advantages they once held. So also >the decision on steel tariffs forced President Bush to renounce these >ill-advised tariffs, a move that was very costly to U.S. steel >companies. Some WTO decisions favor corporations; others disfavor them. >There is no general pattern. > >Another falsehood (p. 8): "How do we picture the windowless carpet >factories in Nepal, where young children work in bondage and sleep under >their looms; the slave-worked chocolate plantations; the sweatshops >where Nike shoes are produced?" David presents this picture without >naming a single such factory. It is my understanding that these children >do not work under bondage (except to their parents), and I know of no >slave-worked chocolate plantations. These jobs are taken by free choice, >meaning that the alternative (in the eyes of the workers) is worse. > >"Sweatshops," as we know them, are the universal type of factory >employing unskilled workers throughout the less developed world. They >are not caused by U.S. corporate policies. If we boycott them, we drive >their workers into even more harmful conditions (prostitution, factories >less safe, etc.) Economists have done studies to show that this is the >case. David does not mention these studies. The way to upgrade labor >(and wages) is through training to increase worker skills, not through >Quakers wringing our hands thousands of miles away. > >Here is a misrepresentation (not necessarily untrue): "NAFTA created >low-paying assembly jobs for Mexicans. But some 200,000 of those jobs >disappeared since 2001 --- mostly to China, where labor is paid >one-fourth as much." Why? Because Mexican wages had risen to become >higher than Chinese. And what does David have against the Chinese, who >need jobs as much as the Mexicans? So long as they take these jobs >voluntarily (which they do), they believe they are better than >alternative work. > >Here is another case: "Bolivia, for instance – [insists] that it reduce >inflation by tightening the money supply. . ." As economic advisor to >the Bolivian National Stabilization Council in 1960 (to fight >inflation), I have a different perspective. The Bolivian government had >printed money to feed its cronies. It was loaned funds by the United >States and the International Monetary Fund provided it stop that >practice and balance its budget. To do so, it required cutting down on >government expenditures, just as any bank would care about the credit >rating of its borrowers. I was there to monitor that this happened. > >Should I also admit that for eight years I worked for the International >Monetary Fund? I can assure you that my colleagues (who were apparently >not consulted for this article) and I never considered the Fund to be an >imperialist organization. Its duty was to help governments whose bad >(corrupt) policies had caused balance-of-payments deficits. We insisted, >in exchange for loans, that good (honest) policies replace the bad. No >government was forced to borrow (nor is today) from the Fund. > >Some minor errors also occur in David's article, such as that the World >Trade Organization was "Bretton-Woods inspired. . " The WTO was >actually founded fifty years later than the Bretton Woods conference >that created the IMF and World Bank. > >David refers (p. 7) to his own earlier article, "The Message of >Seattle," in Friends Journal, March 2000. Possibly to be complete, he >also mentions Brewser Grace's "Viewpoint" in the May 2000 issue. >(Brewster was in the Quaker United Nations Office in Geneva.) But David >does not mention that Brewster's article was intended to correct the >errors of David's article – many of which are repeated in the May 2004 >FJ. In fact, Brewster's article opens with the sentence, "David More's >article on the protests in Seattle contains a number of factual errors >about the World Trade Organization." > >Let me now turn to the innuendoes. "We must identify the seeds of >violence that are scattered in the wake of U.S.-style hypercapitalism >when it is forced on the world" (p. 8). This innuendo could be refuted >with examples, but it should never have been made in the first place >without examples. > >Another innuendo: "Clearly, we need to examine as a society what is >meant by such terms as 'marginal' and 'efficiency.' Do they reflect the >social costs and the environmental consequences? (p. 9)" These are >technical terms in economics, that have specific meanings. Sometimes >they reflect social costs and environmental consequences, and sometimes >they do not, depending on the author who uses them. Here, however, David >hints that they are always used as tools of a hypercapitalist society >--- a complete distortion. > >Remaining innuendoes, which permeate the article, are too long to merit >quotation here. > >The worst characteristic of this article is that it assumes (by >inneundo) that all Quakers agree with this author. His position is >therefore said to be a "Quakerly" one. But there is nothing Quakerly >about it. I have long criticized the politicization of Quakers. This >article is but one more example. > >I wish to inform the Friends Journal that (along with many other Quaker >economists) I am available for consultation and review in case any >article on economics is submitted. > >Jack Powelson is Professor of Economics, Emeritus, at the University of >Colorado. He has published extensively on issues of poverty and economic >development. He is a member of Boulder (CO) Meeting of Friends and is >the chief editor of The Quaker Economist (which can be visited via >Google). From freepolazzo at comcast.net Wed Apr 28 11:06:11 2004 From: freepolazzo at comcast.net (free polazzo) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 11:06:11 -0400 Subject: [saymaListserv] Peace Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040428103847.02cb83b8@POP.Business.Earthlink.net> HI, >Here is a site someone ( a Buddist?) sent to me. > >http://www.attractinggenuinelove.com/peace Enjoy, Free "This is obviously some new usage of the word 'free' I haven't heard before" ...Arthur Dent -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jewen at bellsouth.net Sun Apr 4 04:50:48 2004 From: jewen at bellsouth.net (jewen at bellsouth.net) Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 08:50:48 -0000 Subject: Fw: [saymaListserv] FW: recruiting Message-ID: <004e01c41a23$19533ec0$6101a8c0@amd1gig> Kit, when Priscilla graduated from high school a year early and went to Guilford, I got lots of recruiting literature and several phone calls from military recruiters, and I called both the school and local army recruiter to complain. Even after I informed them that the student in question was no longer at the high school, was a Quaker, enrolled in a Quaker college, studying Quaker theology and actively particpating in anti-war activity, he continued to send literature and call, although I had made it clear that she was no longer living in my house. Either it was purposeful harrassment or just military rigidity--if the name is on the list you send it whatever you send to all the other names. This was of course way before George W Bush became President. The Bush legislation has simply formalized what the military did already. Inadvertently however, they have done us a favor. There apparently is now a mechanism whereby one CAN OPT OUT. There was no such mechanism when Priscilla was a high school student. If there were I would have known about it. I read everything that came from the school. Her high school just handed over the names, they said, as they would to any other employment or college recruiter. Of course this is not just another employer or educational institution. I don't know any other recruiter that comes to the school specifically to recruit people for the purpose of training them to destroy lives and property as a source of political coercive force...which I pointed out to the school officials. I also pointed out that they were not giving equal time to recruiters for organizations who oppose war and/or clean up the aftermath of war. Why? many of those organizations are arms of religious groups. And they could not under separation of church and state allow religious institutions to recruit on campus... Pages from personal history...for what it's worth. Julia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kit Potter" To: "SAYMA Listserve" Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 9:44 PM Subject: [saymaListserv] FW: recruiting > > This has been in place ever since No Child Left Behind was passed, but there > are probably still parents who are unaware of it. And some schools have > simply handed over the whole roster, scared because they will lose federal > funds if they don't observe the letter of the law. It's unclear what happens > if a parent wakes up belatedly and wants to opt out. > > Watch out for this school note > Paul Vitello March 30, 2004 > > The various notices from the school pour into our > house daily like some slot machine jackpot of > pre-sorted mail. Some days, it's one or two pieces. > Some weeks, it seems like hundreds - announcing board > meetings, PTA meetings, book sales, sports schedules, > bus schedules, interim grades, yearbook pictures, > invitations, permission slips, health notices... > > It is a wide and deep river of paper, and in the > currents it would be easy to miss the school > notification required under Sec. 9528 of the No Child > Left Behind Act of 2001. > > Think of this notification as the dangerous undertow > in the river of paper from your local schools. > > It is the one required under the "Armed Forces > Recruiter Access to Students" section of the "No > Child" law. It says that school officials are required > to turn over to U.S. military recruiters the names, > addresses and phone numbers of every child - male and > female - enrolled in the ninth, 10th, 11th and 12 > grades of your school system. > > The school notice will inform you of this, and offer > you a Do Not Call option whereby your child's name can > be withheld from the list. If you do nothing, the > recruiters may call day or night, and say what they > will about the opportunities awaiting your child in > the armed forces. > > If that is not your idea of child guidance, you have > to sign a form. The form will say something like, "I > am requesting that my child's name, address and > telephone number NOT be released to U.S. military > recruiters..." > > By all rights, the form should really say, "Please do > not sell my child's name to the U.S. military so they > can contact him or her without my permission ..." > > The word "sell" is the proper word.The schools get > money for turning over the names of your children. > > To put the onus where it belongs, any school that does > not turn over those names risks losing its federal > funding under the law. For some schools, that means a > lot of money. > > So far, no schools around here have balked. > > "They all know what the [No Child Left Behind] act is > about," said Capt. Todd Kickbusch, commander of Army > recruiting on Long Island, "and they have all been > forthcoming with the information." > > An informal survey indicates that between 20 percent > and 30 percent of the parents in some schools ask to > have their childrens' names withheld. > > Whether the rest are comfortable with recruiters > calling their kids - or whether the rest just happened > to miss that opt-out notification form that arrived in > the mail one day last fall - is anybody's guess. > > "There is an ongoing discussion here about when the > best time is for mailing these notices out," said > Robert Schilling, executive director for > administration and human resources at Massapequa High > School. > > Some Massapequa officials thought the Armed Forces > Recruiter notice should be included in the large > packet mailed to each student in late summer. This > includes each child's course schedule, the name of his > or her new guidance counselor, and other information > that officials thought students and their parents > would be sure to read. Others thought the recruitment > notice should be sent under separate cover. > > For now, said Schilling, it's sent in the late summer > packet. If parents complain of having missed it, that > may change. > > Middle-class communities are not the ones I worry > about, though. > > Parents with jobs and higher education tend to imagine > other options than the military for their kids. The > schools that will sell the highest numbers of their > kids to the recruiters under Sec. 9528 are the poor > ones. Bay Shore and Brentwood have already lost young > men to the wars over there. > > Let whoever wants to join the military go down to a > recruiting office and sign up. Let him or her be 18. > > But if you do not want military recruiters calling > your house while you are at work, and while your > 16-year-old is perhaps playing some PlayStation war > game, imagining him or herself as a master of tank > maneuvering, keep an eye peeled for that notification > from your school. > > It will come in a pre-sorted envelope, and it's > warning you about plans for the pre-sorting of your > kid. > Copyright © 2004, Newsday, Inc. > > _______________________________________________ > Southern Appalachian Yearly Meeting and Association mailing list > posting address: sayma at kitenet.net > subscribe/unsubscribe: http://kitenet.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sayma > From timinathens at yahoo.com Mon Apr 12 13:48:53 2004 From: timinathens at yahoo.com (Tim Johnson) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 17:48:53 -0000 Subject: [saymaListserv] No Child Left Behind requires student info to military; opt out campaign kit Message-ID: <20040412174852.18048.qmail@web41502.mail.yahoo.com> The first link below is to the AFSC information about the No Child Left Behind Act's requirement that high schools provide military recruiters with the names, addresses, and phone numbers of all students (for recruitment purposes). Exempt are private, religious-affiliated schools that include pacifism in their organizational materials (e.g. Quaker schools). Parents in some areas are reporting harassing phone calls from military recruiters. Parents and students have the right to opt out of this by notifying the school, in writing, that it is not to share their information with military recruiters. The second link is an AFSC "Opt Out Tool Kit" to organize locally and let parents and students know about this provision of that law and how to opt out. Included is a sample letter, in English and Spanish, to send to your child's school. 1. http://www.afsc.org/youthmil/no-child.htm 2. http://www.afsc.org/youthmil/optouttoolkit.pdf Love & truth, agape & satyagraha, Tim Tim Johnson, e-mail: timinathens at yahoo.com "Love is a verb." -- Stephen Covey -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From susan at read-the-bible.org Thu Apr 29 09:11:31 2004 From: susan at read-the-bible.org (Susan Jeffers) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 08:11:31 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] Fwd: misrepresentations, innuendos and errors on sweatshops, globalization and economics in Friends Journal article Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040429075620.00b74bc0@mail.read-the-bible.org> Thanks to Janet Minshall for forwarding Jack Powelson's article, submitted to Friends Journal. I have a long-standing question for Friends (including myself) "eager to be of assistance to the less fortunate" and trying to "act in light of actual circumstances of various situations in order to offer real, long-term solutions." My question is -- how do we "know" what we "know" about "actual circumstances" in lands far away, involving people we've met only through highly developed mediated sources such as organizational websites, magazine articles, and even study tours/delegations (which are, in the nature of the thing, themselves well-scripted). Jack Powelson criticizes David Morse's piece, writing "I know of no slave-worked chocolate plantations. These jobs are taken by free choice, meaning that the alternative (in the eyes of the workers) is worse." I just went on Google and typed in "chocolate slave" and got site after site with photos and interviews and of course plenty of exhortation about the evils of African children being kidnapped and/or sold into slavery to work the cocoa plantations. Who's to know what's real? and how can we know? Many of us just choose whichever news media we deem "trustworthy" and take their word for it; I have a hard time doing that, myself... I always feel the urge to go see for myself somehow, and if I can't then I just reserve judgment. I seem to have plenty of problems to work on that are right under my nose, in any case... Any thoughts? Grace and peace to you all -- Susan Jeffers ----------------------------------------------- EMail: susan at read-the-bible.org Peace Church Bible Study Home Page: www.read-the-bible.org From bright_crow at mindspring.com Fri Apr 30 09:15:49 2004 From: bright_crow at mindspring.com (Mike Shell) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 09:15:49 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [saymaListserv] Fwd: [Making women's issues go away Message-ID: <4966647.1083330950139.JavaMail.root@wamui06.slb.atl.earthlink.net> salon. com Making women's issues go away A damning new report reveals that the Bush administration has quietly removed 25 reports from its Women's Bureau Web site, deleting or distorting crucial information on issues from pay equity to reproductive healthcare. - - - - - - - - - - - - By Rebecca Traister, staff writer for Salon April 28, 2004 | If you'd logged onto the Department of Labor's Women's Bureau Web site in 1999, you would have found a list of more than 25 fact sheets and statistical reports on topics ranging from "Earning Differences Between Men and Women" to "Facts About Asian American and Pacific Islander Women" to "Women's Earnings as Percent of Men's 1979-1997." Not anymore. Those fact sheets no longer exist on the Women's Bureau Web site, and have instead been replaced with a handful of peppier titles, like "Hot Jobs for the 21st Century" and "20 Leading Occupations for Women." It's just one example of the ways in which the Bush administration is dismantling or distorting information on women's issues, from pay equity to reproductive healthcare, according to "Missing: Information About Women's Lives," a new report released Wednesday by the National Council for Research on Women. You've probably heard about some of the other examples in "Missing" -- for instance, the time the Centers for Disease Control removed an online guide to condom use and changed the fact-sheet language to indicate that studies on condom use were inconclusive, focusing instead on abstinence. But the power of "Missing" comes not from its dozens of individual examples, but from the depth and breadth of its findings about the small ways in which the Bush administration is draining the well of dependable public scientific and sociological information. "When these instances are taken individually, perhaps we don't see the cumulative pattern of what's happening," said Linda Basch, president of the 23-year-old NCRW, an alliance of 100 women's policy, research and education centers, including the NOW Legal Defense and Education Fund, Planned Parenthood, and the Girl Scouts. "But when we gather the information together, and see the distorted or disappearing information about the economic opportunities, the situation of violence against women, health and particularly reproductive health, it is a very distressing pattern." Released just three days after an estimated 1 million people gathered in Washington for the March for Women's Lives, "Missing" exhaustively catalogs the ways in which government information about women's health, labor and education has been altered, removed or obfuscated during the Bush administration. "This is really undermining a nonpartisan legacy of government," said Basch, referring to a history of reliable dissemination of scientific data by the federal government. Of concern to NCRW researchers is the possibility that this morphed or absent information will hurt future researchers, policymakers and citizens who in the past would have relied on federal sources of information in their advocacy for women's equity and access. In an e-mailed statement to Salon, New York Rep. Carolyn Maloney said, "I'm grateful to the National Council for Research on Women for confirming what many of us in Congress have insisted for years -- we can't continue to advance as women if the cold, hard facts of our status are unknown. We've seen a disturbing trend toward hiding the information that helps us improve women's lives. I hope that this is the beginning of a successful effort to uncover the missing data." California Rep. Barbara Lee also sent a statement, saying, "This report outlines a disturbing pattern of decisions by federal agencies to close down, delay, alter, or spin data about what is happening to American women and girls. Science must not be sacrificed and silenced like this. We must take every opportunity to point out the Administration's attempts to twist, distort, and subvert science to advance its right-wing based political agenda." Many of the shifts in federal agency information have been reported in the past, but, when seen together, look even more impressive -- or horrifying. Some individual examples -- like the observations about the DOL's Women's Bureau -- will look new. [ ....... ] ." The 2002 "Vision Statement" reads: "We will empower women to enhance their potential for securing more satisfying employment as they seek to balance their work-life needs." In other words: less information about helpful policy and legislation, more potential- enhancing tips on balancing "work" and "life." Then there are the missing fact sheets, and the popular handbook on the rights of women in the workplace, called "Don't Work in the Dark - - Know Your Rights," that's not to be found. The "1993 Handbook on Women Workers," which was available in 1999, is no longer. Though it is scheduled for rerelease sometime in the future, NCRW researchers who contacted the Women's Bureau learned that no publication date is set. Irasema Garza, the director of the women's rights department for the American Federation of State County and Municipal Employees, and the former director of the Women's Bureau from 1999 to 2000, had seen parts of the "Missing" report that pertained to her former department. "As soon as I saw the report, I went to my old Web site and found that the majority of all of our fact sheets were gone," she said. "In my old job, I traveled all around the country giving speeches -- but all the women wanted were these fact sheets. Women really used this information to protect themselves in the workplace." Contacted by Salon for a response to the report, a spokeswoman for the Department of Labor said that the Women's Bureau director was traveling, but e-mailed a response to the queries about the changing mission statement and publication list. That e-mail said, in part, "Congress created the Women's Bureau in 1920 to 'formulate standards and policies which shall promote the welfare of wage-earning women, improve their working conditions, increase their efficiency, and advance their opportunities for profitable employment.' Under that mandate, the Women's Bureau's focus, programs, publications and website are changed and updated periodically to reflect the priorities of the current Administration, the Secretary of Labor and the Director of the Women's Bureau. The Bureau continues to work with internal and external partners and stakeholders to develop programs to address the needs of 21st Century working women." The White House press office, contacted for comment, did not re! spond by press time. "The fact that 25 reports on issues of equality and access have been removed from this Web site is enormously distressing," said Basch of the findings about the changes at the Women's Bureau. She pointed out that the public, as well as researchers, journalists and policymakers, turns to agency Web sites for information about rights and government policies. Basch claimed that last year there were more than 250 million hits to government Web sites. [ ....... ] Over at the Centers for Disease Control, the NCRW researchers claim, posted fact sheets were revised to suggest studies on the effectiveness of using condoms to prevent the spread of HIV and other STDs were "inconclusive." Instead, the revised fact sheet focused on abstinence -- a favorite of the family values crowd -- as the only effective path to sexual health. As was reported at the time, the CDC also removed an online guide to proper condom use (replacing it later with a revised edition) as well as a list of successful sex education programs and studies that showed no rise in sexual activity among teens taught about condoms. "These are debates that scientific research has closed," said Riche. "The people who provide the information are now reopening those debates, taking away the scientific certainty. It's more subtle than putting out wrong information or simply removing all the information -- and, frankly, more effective." According to the researchers behind "Missing," the pressure of right- wing ideology has also led scientists to stop using words like "gay," "sex worker," and "transgender" in their grant applications. This comes in the wake of the Traditional Values Coalition's very long and damning list of 150 researchers and 200 grants in the field of high- risk sexual behavior. Then there's the case of the morning-after pill, which has yet to appear as an over-the-counter medication, despite the two scientific advisory committees that urged the FDA to make it one. According to "Missing," it was pressure from conservative groups that led FDA commissioner Mark McClellan to postpone his expected February 2004 decision on the matter by 90 days. "Missing" doesn't concern itself only with absent online information. It also lists some of the actual governmental bodies that have disappeared or been threatened during the Bush administration. In 2001, George Bush disbanded the President's Interagency Council on Women, a group appointed in 1995 by Bill Clinton to implement strategies developed at the U.N. Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing, as part of the U.N. Platform for Action. The council was chaired by Secretary of Health and Human Services Donna Shalala and then by Secretary of State Madeleine Albright. "One of the things the office did was make sure the president's policies reflected women's issues," said Garza. "That office is gone. It was one of the first things that was done away with under this administration." [ ....... ] "In my experience, I would say we are probably just seeing the tip of the iceberg with this report," said Riche. "If we know about all these examples, that means there are many, many more." To that end, the NCRW is establishing a Misinformation Clearinghouse Web site through which people can submit examples of information that is no longer available to them. The Clearinghouse will also collect and publish a list of sources for dependable information. [ ....... ] Full article: http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2004/04/28/womens_report/index.html - - - - - - - - - - - -