[saymaListserv] Capitalism and Population Decline: What are Friends Responses and Responsibilities?

[Janet Minshall]

Dear Steve Livingston and Nancy Winfrey, Thanks so much for your 
responses.  Steve, you succeeded very well in clarifying your 
comments.  I'm really glad that my message was interesting and that 
its OK with you if I stick around for awhile.

Nancy, I actually have strong feelings about deciding from day to 
day, from handicap to handicap, whether my quality of life is worth 
the money and energy it takes.  I am aware that using the medications 
I'm prescribed and taking periodic injections (nerve blocks) of 
long-acting drugs to limit the chronic pain in my body have put me at 
significant risk for side effects.  I have found, however, that my 
enjoyment of life, my relationships, my mental and emotional state, 
and my sense of productivity and accomplishment are so much improved 
by them that I am willing to take the risks. I think people who 
haven't experienced chronic pain tend to underestimate the black 
cloud that it can spread over everything and the unexpected 
limitations it can impose.

I was surpised by my inability, while I was in a fog of pain, to read 
a book -- the pain was too distracting.  I could read magazine and 
journal articles, editorials and essays, but I couldn't escape into a 
wonderful novel or become engrossed in reading a long history or a 
complex analysis that made me think in a new and different way.  And 
I couldn't express myself very well face to face.  I often couldn't 
put my thoughts together and convey them clearly enough to 
communicate.  A few years ago I also lost most of my hearing in one 
ear and found that the other ear was beginning to fail. Added to the 
pain, that loss had a huge impact on me as did the diagnosis of 
glaucoma and early cataract formation which could take my eyes, 
eventually, too.  Right now, though, the computer has made thinking, 
writing, reading, hearing and seeing all a lot easier for me. So I 
sincerely bless the medical research and the technology that have 
given me some relief and  support.  I am also most grateful to those 
of you who let me know that you find what I write interesting, 
stimulating and even enlightening.
			In Peace, Janet Minshall

(Did you notice that Demosthenes is playing basketball on the Greek 
Olympic team?  Now I'm looking for Diogenes to show up among the 
judges! J.)




Steve Livingston wrote on 8-26:

Thanks for your interesting reply, Janet. You have certainly 
demonstrated to me that my lack of clarity could lead to readers 
getting the wrong impression of my perceptions.

You asked why I assumed that anyone who disagrees with me about 
capitalism must be ignorant of the history of the labor movement and 
its battles for workers' rights. I apologize for giving that 
impression. I do not make that assumption at all. In your response 
you refer to "the commendable history of the labor movement" which I 
assume to be an endorsment of workers' efforts to promote decent 
wages and a safe and humane workplace. I meant to raise the question 
of whether these efforts can be reasonably viewed as a benefit of 
capitalism.

Again I fear there may have been a lack of clearness on my part that 
seems to have led to the conclusion that I am "opposed to a growth 
economy". I made no such statement, and did not mean to imply that at 
all. I am concerned about exploitation rather than about growth. 
Growth is a natural occurrence which may or may not be beneficial, 
but a system that depends on exploitation of growth may find itself 
promoting that which is not beneficial in the absence, or even 
presence, of that which is.

I regret that readers may not have inferred the distinction I wished 
to make between the economic philosophy versus the prevailing 
practice of it. I obviously gave you the wrong impression, Janet. I 
am not opposed to capitalism. I practice it myself, in my own way, 
and I know - and support - many other people who practice it. In 
fact, Janet, I agree completely with your observation that "it is 
actually human greed and power-seeking which are to blame". I see 
these two forces clearly and frequently at work in the contemporary 
practice of capitalism, and I see them, more often than not, 
prevailing. I hope I have now expressed my views on this more clearly.

Many citizens are concerned about the fate of Social Security, and 
rightly so in my opinion. Your comments on this, Janet, do resonate 
with me to a large extent. However your refutation of supply-side 
economics does not. I sense from my readings, discussions, and 
observations, that modern capitalism no longer operates under the old 
system of "give the customers what they want", but rather under a new 
system of "tell the customers what they want". I admit to being a 
mere lay person, and am willing to hear more on this particular 
question from those who are more expert, but that is certainly the 
impression I have, and is certainly the focus of my commentary about 
health care as a commodity.

Regarding your two final questions. As for whether you are spending 
your children's inheritance by accepting Social Security or Medicare 
payments, I would say no to that. As for what point you should kill 
yourself in order not to be a burden to me, I would say it is your 
decision, not mine, and I don't find you a burden at all. On the 
contrary, I have so far enjoyed your presence.

Steve
--
Steve Livingston
nc_stereoman at charter.net




Nancy Winfrey wrote on 9-26:

>
>The comments about capitalism and the health care industry caught my 
>attention.  I have recently subscribed online to a free newsletter 
>written by Dr. Mercola, whose clinic is based, I believe in 
>Illinois.  He writes of extensive research, often outside of our 
>country, into the practices and medications which are prevelant here.
>
>Please understand that I don't necessarily fault our 
>well-intentioned doctors and healthcare workers.  They are, for the 
>most part, overworked and underpaid by insurance companies and the 
>government programs such as Medicare.  They can only give limited 
>time to us due to their heavy expenses for liability insurance, 
>office staff to process paperwork, supplies, etc. etc.  Because of 
>this time crunch, in order to have any time left to them for family 
>and recreation or other interests, they must rely heavily on the 
>drug representatives which visit them, also taking their time.  To 
>explore alternative studies and theories is beyond most of our 
>doctors' time.
>
>Dr. Mercola is one of a growing group of MDs (there is a partnership 
>here in Travelers Rest following this trend) which eschews the 
>government/insurance paperwork mess, and doesn't staff their offices 
>accordingly.  Unfortunately for those on low incomes like myself, 
>their fees, which are reasonable, must be paid out of pocket.
>
>Dr. Mercola outlines a healthy, environmental and diet-based 
>program, with drugs only used when these lifestyle factors fail. 
>Instead of treating everything with drugs, the nature-based 
>physician tries to utilize the natural powers of healing which we 
>all have.
>
>His research into the drug company practices is frightening.  I am 
>particularly frightened by the unpublished (in this country) studies 
>of the side effects of the statins which are being actively marketed 
>now to an additional 35,000,000 Americans, a market which already is 
>reputed to have reached a 1.3 billion dollars of income to drug 
>companies last year!  The side effects he cites, according to 
>alternative and equally scientific studies, can lead to death for an 
>unacceptable percentage of people.  My own experience with this drug 
>over the last 10 years, and the side effects suffered by myself and 
>two of my older acquaintances underscore this hazard.
>
>I am afraid that when I tell my doctor I will no longer take this 
>drug, that I may have to find another doctor.  He relies heavily on 
>medications for all conditions, and being a specialist in his field, 
>I can only hope he will be open minded to other opinions.  Time will 
>tell.
>
>The point of this is that the drug companies in this country are 
>holding us all hostage, and our elected officials are doing little 
>to identify, publicize, or remedy the situation.  Consider for 
>instance, that the Tricare drug benefit pays very little to these 
>companies.  The cost of drugs in other countries, including Canada, 
>is 1/2 to 1/4 of what they cost here.  When a drug is needed to 
>preserve health (and not always is that the case), we are charged 
>with what the drug companies claim is enough to cover the costs of 
>overseas countries and government programs, plus their profits, and 
>they are one of the most profitable sectors of our economy, ranking 
>right up there with energy!
>
>Cost of drugs doesn't even begin to address the accounting practices 
>and media hype about these companies.  By the way, if one begins to 
>try and unravel ownership of these countries at least one large 
>company, and perhaps many others, are owned by overseas investors 
>instead of American investors!  The tax advantages these 
>foreign-owned companies enjoy here, and their questionable methods 
>of accounting seem to add to their profits substantially.
>
>The reporting of the results of their testing methods is also rather 
>skewed, according to what I have read.  Most drugs are tested on 
>young, healthy men.  Not children, women or the elderly - and the 
>elderly are the most frequent users of the commonly prescribed drugs 
>for diabetes, heart disease, and dementia.  As we age, as I 
>understand it, our livers and other organs become less efficient at 
>filtering out toxins from these drugs, and side effects escalate.  I 
>have yet to see a drug-sponsored test results published which shows 
>the side effects of any particular drug, much less the most common 
>ones, broken down according to age!
>
>In short, I am learning that there is more to the excellent medical 
>care we receive in this country than meets the eye.  Perhaps we need 
>to begin to be advocates as individuals for our own health, and to 
>question not only our physicians, but the drug companies about this 
>drug-oriented medical system.  Ultimately, the responsibility for 
>the state of our health is ours, and after we do all we can to 
>pursue a healthy lifestyle, then we need to make informed decisions 
>as to whether we should use available drugs to enhance our quality 
>of life.  It can be devastating to ignore alternative information 
>about the drugs we take!  As Pogo said years ago "we have met the 
>enemy, and he is us!"
>
>Nancy Winfrey
>
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