From bright_crow at mindspring.com Wed Nov 3 10:02:45 2004 From: bright_crow at mindspring.com (Mike Shell) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 09:02:45 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Subject: [saymaListserv] In the Darkness: November 3, 2004 Message-ID: <5438173.1099490566476.JavaMail.root@wamui07.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Friends, Thought I had hoped otherwise, the electorate has moved in a very distressing direction. Not only the presidency but senatorial seats and other offices have fallen to the nation's reactionary mood, and gay marriage bans have passed in ten states. I remember Weimar Germany and continue to struggle with my fear of history repeated. I encourage you to consider the "Thought for Eleventh Month" on the current SEYM Peace & Social Concerns home page: http://seympeace.org/ Blessed Be, Michael. From Quakerkristi at aol.com Wed Nov 3 19:02:24 2004 From: Quakerkristi at aol.com (Quakerkristi at aol.com) Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 18:02:24 EST Subject: [saymaListserv] moral values Message-ID: <194.3107f811.2ebabd80@aol.com> Dear Friends, I'm sure many of us are sharing the emotional disappointment of yesterday's election results. I'm feeling particularly worried for selfish reasons. I know there is the war...and the economy...and the supreme court...and the violence of our national attitude..... But my real disappointment is that I may never be able to be legally married to my life partner. We celebrated our 15th anniversary yesterday. A year ago we thought we might be in Massachusetts this year making our union legal, but that state's legal requirements make it impractical. Instead we were hammered with the voter's fear of sharing our "moral values." I fear that our gains were set back for decades, or maybe for a lifetime. Having this rite/priviledge is a life goal of mine. It's hard to explain why, but it is very important to me...maybe it's the justice of it, or the social validation it gives, or maybe it's just my romantic heart, but it is not trivial. And a civil union isn't the same - especially not to the security of our children. Thanks for listening. Personnally, I feel a need to speak out more about this issue, realizing that even f/Friends may not understand its importance. Thanks for your support, Kristi Estes....Memphis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nmwhitt at samford.edu Thu Nov 4 11:04:09 2004 From: nmwhitt at samford.edu (Nancy Whitt) Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 09:04:09 -0600 Subject: [saymaListserv] Response to Kristi Message-ID: Without attaching Kristi's name, I sent her letter to colleagues, friends & relatives. This is a response from a colleague, an Episcopal biology teacher, who fills a need at Samford by teaching human sexuality in her biology classes. Students learn from her & love her. N. Nancy, It is definitely time to speak out. Christianity is a living force that challenges social stratification. When Christianity is vibrant, we Christian live our relationship to the divine in each other (all others). At its worst, Christianity is a triumphalistic socio-political construct that reinforces the status quo. We need to be proactive at reclaiming it. The Christ who freely consorted with prostitutes, and who sees the deepest sins of my soul, yet forgives, who encouraged people to aid the "other" would not ask us to reject our sisters and brothers who are homosexual. Galations 3:28 says it all : "There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus." My bet, He would have been turning water into wine and dancing at the wedding your friend so deeply desires. This letter from Common Dreams says it all far better than I can: Published on Monday, October 25, 2004 by CommonDreams.org No Longer a Christian http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1025-25.htm Betsy Betsy Dobbins Assistant Professor Department of Biology Samford University Birmingham, AL 35229-2234 From nmwhitt at samford.edu Thu Nov 4 12:13:12 2004 From: nmwhitt at samford.edu (Nancy Whitt) Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 10:13:12 -0600 Subject: [saymaListserv] Response to Kristi Message-ID: This is from an faculty member from the English Dept. I've also received phone calls on how touching the letter was and how supportive f/Friends want to be. N. I don't find your reasoning selfish at all. Election day was a devastating expression of violence to women, to gays, to blacks, to all of us who desire a peaceful and open democracy. I have to keep reminding myself that 55,000,000 other Americans feel the way we do lest I despair that my fellow citizens elected a U.S. Senator who advocates capital punishment for women who have abortions. I was a child during the Vietnam War, so perhaps I misjudge the severity of these times. But I don't recognize my America anymore. Bryan From bonningtons at apsu.edu Thu Nov 4 12:38:32 2004 From: bonningtons at apsu.edu (Bonnington, Stuart) Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:38:32 -0600 Subject: [saymaListserv] gay marriage: Bush's trump card Message-ID: <2B123AD3FDBDF248B7F8DA9A8064F30EBD0501@exchange2.apsu.edu> What could have been: I support gay marriage. I wish now though in hindsight that the mayor of San Francisco would have waited until January to take his public action in support of gay marriage. That stance gave George Bush the fuel to support a constitutional ban on gay marriage, a ban that he well knew would not at time fly. That lead to the gay marriage ban initiatives appearing on numerous state ballots. That energized the Christian Taliban, many of whom sat out the last election. The Right Wing seized on a wonderful opportunity to rally collective ignorance. Stuart Bonnington From nc_stereoman at charter.net Thu Nov 4 15:15:54 2004 From: nc_stereoman at charter.net (Steve Livingston) Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 14:15:54 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] gay marriage: Bush's trump card In-Reply-To: <2B123AD3FDBDF248B7F8DA9A8064F30EBD0501@exchange2.apsu.edu> Message-ID: <418A399A.1122.177CA93@localhost> Dear Friends, I understand how easy it is for the many citizens who are disappointed with the outcome of the elections to momentarily forget that we are all citizens of the same country, whichever lever we pulled in the voting booth. Or wherever we touched the screen, as the case may be. Once the dust settles, we citizens may return to our primary task of good stewardship of our Ship of State, care and concern for the welfare of our neighbors from community to global, and we Friends may return to our calling to cheerfully walk upon the Earth, answering to that of G*d in every one. I think we will find that last particularly daunting if we regard our fellow citizens as collectively ignorant, and view their deeply-held spirituality as "Christian Taliban". I doubt we can be helpful to them unless we are more open to connect on both a spiritual and an intellectual level. It's important to remember that even among us Liberal Friends, there is not universal acceptance of "gay marriage". Some Friends, including some I know personally and do not consider to be ignorant, find that they are unable to unite with the term "marriage" being applied to couples of the same gender. How long has it been since we Quakers have been united in our acceptance of homosexuality as natural and Divinely sanctified? Was this a revelation given to George Fox? or did it take us hundreds of years to get to this point? Do we dismiss our forebearers as ignorant because the way had not yet opened for them to be so enlightened? I wonder how many of us would unite in refraining from marriage of heterosexual couples because we oppose discrimination against homosexual couples. Which of us who are already enjoying the rights and privileges of legal matrimony would willingly give up those rights until such time as they are afforded to all couples? Steve From bonningtons at apsu.edu Fri Nov 5 09:42:46 2004 From: bonningtons at apsu.edu (Bonnington, Stuart) Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 07:42:46 -0600 Subject: [saymaListserv] Steve's post Message-ID: <2B123AD3FDBDF248B7F8DA9A8064F30EBD0503@exchange2.apsu.edu> Steve Livingston's thoughtfulpost in response to mine is appreciated. He took exception to my mentioning collective ignorance in regards to the Christian Right getting out the vote against gay marriage. I suppose my terms were harsh, however, my use of the words "collective ignorance" were actually quite toned down and a more loving response than what I could have said. The line, "Forgive them, they know not what they do" I think is an appropriate response to masses who voted for George Bush. Stuart Bonnington From moriah at preferred.com Sat Nov 6 06:58:57 2004 From: moriah at preferred.com (Mary Calhoun) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 05:58:57 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] attach test Message-ID: <03ca01c4c3f0$099bf680$6464a2c6@abc> attachment to kite test -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: caflisch&caliban&comment.bmp Type: image/bmp Size: 1203654 bytes Desc: not available URL: From moriah at preferred.com Sat Nov 6 07:14:05 2004 From: moriah at preferred.com (Mary Calhoun) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 06:14:05 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] sorry! delete "caflisch&caliban...." mssg Message-ID: <040e01c4c3f1$bfadf580$6464a2c6@abc> Dear Friends, You can -- please -- delete the listserve message with the "caflisch&caliban...." attachment. A moment of inattention.... whilst wondering if kitenet could handle an attachment. Sorry for any inconvenient download time. ^o^ \_/ Mary AdminAsst at sayma.org 276-628-5852 POB 2191, Abingdon VA 24212-2191 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moriah at preferred.com Sat Nov 6 09:33:02 2004 From: moriah at preferred.com (Mary Calhoun) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 08:33:02 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] IMP^o^ 170 reminder - F&P response Message-ID: <077d01c4c414$972fd1a0$6464a2c6@abc> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ IMP^o^ Bulletin 170 Reminder.... .....from Faith & Practice Revision Committee ---------------------------------------------------------------------- meeting responses due Dec 4, 2004 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ (from a 10-29-04 e-mail from Geeta McGahey, clerk, SAYMA Faith & Practice Revision Committee) Please pass on to your meeting, & please excuse the duplicate message if you got one. Thanks! <|> Reminder -- meeting comments on the latest Faith and Practice proposed revisions are due back Dec 4, 2004 <|> by e-mail, please send to Geeta McGahey mcgahey at yancey.main.nc.us <|> by mail, please send to Barbara Esther 255 Willow Cove Rd, Leicester NC 28748 <|> the revision handout is attached to this message <|> the same text is also available at http://www.sayma.org/online_documents.htm#F&P; once there, beside "Proposed Revisions to Part 2," click on "RTF" or "PDF" <|> RTF is "rich text format" and can usually be opened with a word processor <|> PDF is "portable document format;" Adobe Reader will open it <|> as usual, we are asked not to correct punctuation and spelling <|> if your meeting will not be responding, please notify Geeta mcgahey at yancey.main.nc.us <|> the 12-04-04 due date is to facilitate the committee's -- -- reviewing responses, and making further revisions (January) -- presenting (Spring Rep Mtg) & posting (web, April) -- presenting for approval (June, Yearly Meeting) ~~~~~~ end ^o^ ~~~~~~ 1stpost 110604 ~~~~~~ _______________________________________ IMP ^o^ ... "Information Made Present" is a bulletin service of the SAYMA office to provide practical details to our geographically-challenged Yearly Meeting via our list-server: semi-official information, bulletins that you can print, post, announce, publish, or pass around. Please address questions, corrections and additions to AdminAsst at sayma.org, 276-628-5852 (machine; in-person Tu/Th 5-7:30p), or SAYMA Admin Asst, PO Box 2191, Abingdon, VA 24212-2191. Thank you! ^o^ ----------------------------------------------------- To receive IMP^o^ bulletins, subscribe to the list server, sayma at kitenet.net. You can subscribe on the web at http://kitenet.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sayma. ------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 04 Proposed ChangesfINAL.rtf Type: application/msword Size: 40253 bytes Desc: not available URL: From moriah at preferred.com Sat Nov 6 11:38:14 2004 From: moriah at preferred.com (Mary Calhoun) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 10:38:14 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] IMP^o^171 RM109 ^date ! Message-ID: <082201c4c416$af793f60$6464a2c6@abc> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ IMP ^o^ Bulletin 171 Representative Meeting 109 Minutes.... .....Update ----------------------------------------------------------- MS Access software is in hand! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ (from the Administrative Assistant) <|> The SAYMA office is pleased to report that the software mentioned in Minute #109-17 as "needed" has been provided. <|> Thanks go to Tim Lamm, who was able to donate a version of MS Access that he no longer used. <|> The rest of SAYMA need no longer seek for it. ~~~~~~ end ^o^ ~~~~~~ 1stpost 110604 ~~~~~~ _______________________________________ IMP ^o^ ... "Information Made Present" is a bulletin service of the SAYMA office to provide practical details to our geographically-challenged Yearly Meeting via our list-server: semi-official information, bulletins that you can print, post, announce, publish, or pass around. Please address questions, corrections and additions to AdminAsst at sayma.org, 276-628-5852 (machine; in-person Tu/Th 5-7:30p), or SAYMA Admin Asst, PO Box 2191, Abingdon, VA 24212-2191. Thank you! ^o^ ----------------------------------------------------- To receive IMP^o^ bulletins, subscribe to the list server, sayma at kitenet.net. You can subscribe on the web at http://kitenet.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sayma. ------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moriah at preferred.com Sat Nov 6 14:54:12 2004 From: moriah at preferred.com (Mary Calhoun) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 13:54:12 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] IMP^o^ 172 Rep Meeting, all welcome! Message-ID: <0b4e01c4c432$2a0cb020$6464a2c6@abc> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ IMP ^o^ Bulletin 172 All welcome... ... at SAYMA's Rep Meetings ------------------------------------------------------- Next one: Dec 4th at Chattanooga FM ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Please share with your meeting -- <|> Winter Representative Meeting will be held Saturday, Dec 4th, at 10:00 am Eastern time, hosted by Chattanooga (TN) Friends Meeting. <|> Please note: due to the registrar's Thanksgiving plans, registrations will need to be in her hands by Nov 18. Registration will be available by e-mail, phone, mail, and possibly through a web form. Details will be in registration packets mailed and posted on the website. <|> Any f/Friend may attend and participate; those gathered represent the Yearly Meeting. (Attending without "official" duties can be a delightful chance for fellowship and taking part in Quaker process.) <|> "Representative Meeting carries out the ongoing work of the yearly meeting and acts in the name of the yearly meeting between sessions." (A Guide to Our Faith and Our Practice) <|> Each meeting and worship group is encouraged to send a Representative. These f/Friends are important channels of two-way communication between SAYMA and local meetings. <|> SAYMA "... is organized ... to provide fellowship and a central coordinating group of Friends ... through which individuals and Monthly Meetings are nurtured, and whereby inspiration, spiritual revitalization, mutual irradiation, exchange of ideas, comparison of problems, and coordination of spiritual/religious efforts may be accomplished." (from "...Articles of SAYMA," an "approved operating description for ... legal and other purposes.") <|> Presently, SAYMA is comprised of 30 meetings and worship groups, and one preparative meeting (ranging in size from under a dozen to over 300 members and attenders). <|> "Our name ... in traditional Quaker language indicates that we meet annually to conduct our business. The yearly meeting, however, is a cooperative association and exercises no authority, other than moral and advisory, over any local meeting or individual Friend." (Faith and Practice) <|> Registration packets will be mailed soon to f/Friends recorded in the SAYMA office as: -- Clerks/contacts for their meetings or worship groups -- SAYMA representatives from meetings & worship groups -- clerks & members of SAYMA committees -- SAYMA's representatives to wider Quaker organizations -- SAYMA clerks and treasurer -- SAYMA archivist & web manager, & SAF editors -- SAYF administrative assistant <|> Others wishing to register and attend may --soon -- contact a f/Friend in one of the above roles, or visit www.sayma.org. ~~~~~~ end ^o^ ~~~~~~ postdate 110604 ~~~~~ _______________________________________ IMP ^o^ ... "Information Made Present" is a bulletin service of the SAYMA office to provide practical details to our geographically-challenged Yearly Meeting via our list-server: semi-official information, bulletins that you can print, post, announce, publish, or pass around. Please address questions, corrections and additions to AdminAsst at sayma.org, 276-628-5852 (machine; in-person Tu/Th 5-7:30p), or SAYMA Admin Asst, PO Box 2191, Abingdon, VA 24212-2191. Thank you! ^o^ ----------------------------------------------------- To receive IMP^o^ bulletins, subscribe to the list server, sayma at kitenet.net. You can subscribe on the web at http://kitenet.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sayma. ------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bonnipeg at charter.net Mon Nov 8 02:49:49 2004 From: bonnipeg at charter.net (Peggy Bonnington) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 00:49:49 -0600 Subject: [saymaListserv] RE: sayma Digest, Vol 22, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: <20041105120004.4E68D18053@kitenet.net> Message-ID: <007901c4c55f$27b588f0$864a7044@default> Interestingly enough, Steve, that is EXACTLY what some disappointed folks in Clarksville were talking about doing - promoting the banning of all marriage if gay marriage couldn't be appropriately recongized and condoned. Yes, I know it doesn't make much sense in one sense ... But just goes to show that there are some strong feelings out here about our country refusing to give validation to loving and committed couples - and making stupid choices as a result! Peggy -----Original Message----- Dear Friends, I understand how easy it is for the many citizens who are disappointed with the outcome of the elections to momentarily forget that we are all citizens of the same country, whichever lever we pulled in the voting booth. Or wherever we touched the screen, as the case may be. Once the dust settles, we citizens may return to our primary task of good stewardship of our Ship of State, care and concern for the welfare of our neighbors from community to global, and we Friends may return to our calling to cheerfully walk upon the Earth, answering to that of G*d in every one. I think we will find that last particularly daunting if we regard our fellow citizens as collectively ignorant, and view their deeply-held spirituality as "Christian Taliban". I doubt we can be helpful to them unless we are more open to connect on both a spiritual and an intellectual level. It's important to remember that even among us Liberal Friends, there is not universal acceptance of "gay marriage". Some Friends, including some I know personally and do not consider to be ignorant, find that they are unable to unite with the term "marriage" being applied to couples of the same gender. How long has it been since we Quakers have been united in our acceptance of homosexuality as natural and Divinely sanctified? Was this a revelation given to George Fox? or did it take us hundreds of years to get to this point? Do we dismiss our forebearers as ignorant because the way had not yet opened for them to be so enlightened? I wonder how many of us would unite in refraining from marriage of heterosexual couples because we oppose discrimination against homosexual couples. Which of us who are already enjoying the rights and privileges of legal matrimony would willingly give up those rights until such time as they are afforded to all couples? Steve From nmwhitt at samford.edu Mon Nov 8 11:39:33 2004 From: nmwhitt at samford.edu (Nancy Whitt) Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 09:39:33 -0600 Subject: [saymaListserv] RE: sayma Digest, Vol 22, Issue 3 Message-ID: Since I sent the "ChristianTaliban" remark, I have been reflecting on the circumstances of it's being written and upon my sending it. I think the metaphor is entirely appropriate for what was happening on SAYMA-Kitenet. We were sharing our feelings and responses to the disappoitment of a Friend who foresees the impossibility of a basic civil right in her own life as well as a basic spiritual, social and family celebration. The "Christian Taliban" metaphor was uttered by a poet who is careful to match his feelings with the metaphor (if you want to consider the use of other strong metaphors by poets, read anything by Sylvia Plath). What I perceive came back from Steve was not sharing but more of a sermon on what language we should use to voice our feelings. When I worked on the Nationwide Women's Program of AFSC, many of the nonQuaker women there felt Quakers used silence to shut them up. I remember a young Latina saying she had just learned to use the F-word and nobody was going to tell her to be quiet. Another time, when a truly heroic African American woman used her ordinary street language, the presiding Quaker silenced her by telling her what language she coud not use. What I've learned to call "Quaker niceness," I experience as a form of oppression or, at best, repression that precludes a person using his or her own speech to accurately express her or his own feelings. The poet was voicing his strong feelings about the attempts by some to circumscribe the abundant life of others and this was his language. I wouldn't ask him not to use it. I might express my own discomfort at certain kinds of language, but I'd speak for myself, and I would not use "we" or "us" to suggest that I'm speaking for other Quakers. And especially in moments of sharing of feelings, I'd try to allow a person to use his or her language without judging it. Peace, Nancy >>> "Peggy Bonnington" 11/8/2004 12:49:49 AM >>> Interestingly enough, Steve, that is EXACTLY what some disappointed folks in Clarksville were talking about doing - promoting the banning of all marriage if gay marriage couldn't be appropriately recongized and condoned. Yes, I know it doesn't make much sense in one sense ... But just goes to show that there are some strong feelings out here about our country refusing to give validation to loving and committed couples - and making stupid choices as a result! Peggy -----Original Message----- Dear Friends, I understand how easy it is for the many citizens who are disappointed with the outcome of the elections to momentarily forget that we are all citizens of the same country, whichever lever we pulled in the voting booth. Or wherever we touched the screen, as the case may be. Once the dust settles, we citizens may return to our primary task of good stewardship of our Ship of State, care and concern for the welfare of our neighbors from community to global, and we Friends may return to our calling to cheerfully walk upon the Earth, answering to that of G*d in every one. I think we will find that last particularly daunting if we regard our fellow citizens as collectively ignorant, and view their deeply-held spirituality as "Christian Taliban". I doubt we can be helpful to them unless we are more open to connect on both a spiritual and an intellectual level. It's important to remember that even among us Liberal Friends, there is not universal acceptance of "gay marriage". Some Friends, including some I know personally and do not consider to be ignorant, find that they are unable to unite with the term "marriage" being applied to couples of the same gender. How long has it been since we Quakers have been united in our acceptance of homosexuality as natural and Divinely sanctified? Was this a revelation given to George Fox? or did it take us hundreds of years to get to this point? Do we dismiss our forebearers as ignorant because the way had not yet opened for them to be so enlightened? I wonder how many of us would unite in refraining from marriage of heterosexual couples because we oppose discrimination against homosexual couples. Which of us who are already enjoying the rights and privileges of legal matrimony would willingly give up those rights until such time as they are afforded to all couples? Steve _______________________________________________ Southern Appalachian Yearly Meeting and Association mailing list posting address: sayma at kitenet.net subscribe/unsubscribe: http://kitenet.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sayma From perryt at bellsouth.net Mon Nov 8 14:21:18 2004 From: perryt at bellsouth.net (Perry Treadwell) Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 13:21:18 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] RE: sayma Digest, Vol 22, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: <007901c4c55f$27b588f0$864a7044@default> References: <007901c4c55f$27b588f0$864a7044@default> Message-ID: <418FB91E.2050200@bellsouth.net> Judith and I were rightly joined 13 years ago by Atlanta Meeting with no license because our gay (F)friends could not be married. We have explicit financial agreements and wills. As I recall Free and Janet were also rightly joined. Perry Peggy Bonnington wrote: >Interestingly enough, Steve, that is EXACTLY what some disappointed >folks in Clarksville were talking about doing - promoting the banning of >all marriage if gay marriage couldn't be appropriately recongized and >condoned. Yes, I know it doesn't make much sense in one sense ... But >just goes to show that there are some strong feelings out here about our >country refusing to give validation to loving and committed couples - >and making stupid choices as a result! > >Peggy > >-----Original Message----- > >Dear Friends, > >I understand how easy it is for the many citizens who are >disappointed with the outcome of the elections to momentarily >forget that we are all citizens of the same country, whichever lever >we pulled in the voting booth. Or wherever we touched the screen, >as the case may be. > >Once the dust settles, we citizens may return to our primary task of >good stewardship of our Ship of State, care and concern for the >welfare of our neighbors from community to global, and we Friends >may return to our calling to cheerfully walk upon the Earth, >answering to that of G*d in every one. > >I think we will find that last particularly daunting if we regard our >fellow citizens as collectively ignorant, and view their deeply-held >spirituality as "Christian Taliban". I doubt we can be helpful to them >unless we are more open to connect on both a spiritual and an >intellectual level. > >It's important to remember that even among us Liberal Friends, >there is not universal acceptance of "gay marriage". Some Friends, >including some I know personally and do not consider to be >ignorant, find that they are unable to unite with the term "marriage" >being applied to couples of the same gender. > >How long has it been since we Quakers have been united in our >acceptance of homosexuality as natural and Divinely sanctified? >Was this a revelation given to George Fox? or did it take us >hundreds of years to get to this point? Do we dismiss our >forebearers as ignorant because the way had not yet opened for >them to be so enlightened? > >I wonder how many of us would unite in refraining from marriage of >heterosexual couples because we oppose discrimination against >homosexual couples. Which of us who are already enjoying the >rights and privileges of legal matrimony would willingly give up >those rights until such time as they are afforded to all couples? > >Steve > > > >_______________________________________________ >Southern Appalachian Yearly Meeting and Association mailing list >posting address: sayma at kitenet.net >subscribe/unsubscribe: http://kitenet.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sayma > > > From timinathens at yahoo.com Tue Nov 9 17:54:09 2004 From: timinathens at yahoo.com (Tim Johnson) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 13:54:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [saymaListserv] RE: sayma Digest, Vol 22, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: <418FB91E.2050200@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <20041109215409.14767.qmail@web41508.mail.yahoo.com> Actually, there's an argument to be made that the government should not be in the marriage business at all, because marriage is essentially a religious or spiritual union before God. The government's business has to do with legal obligations -- property, inheritance, child care and support, financial obligations, etc etc -- and involves nonsectarian arrangements. Such legal obligations are the government's business. Marriage (as most folks seem to define it in distinguishing between civil unions and marriage -- regardless of their position on gender) is an issue of spirit and faith. Bigotry is unacceptable regardless, and if two-gender couples can wed under the law then same-gender couples should also be allowed to, but I believe that it's the Meeting's (or whatever faith) purview to oversee weddings, and City Hall's to oversee civil unions. Perry Treadwell wrote: Judith and I were rightly joined 13 years ago by Atlanta Meeting with no license because our gay (F)friends could not be married. We have explicit financial agreements and wills. As I recall Free and Janet were also rightly joined. Perry Peggy Bonnington wrote: >Interestingly enough, Steve, that is EXACTLY what some disappointed >folks in Clarksville were talking about doing - promoting the banning of >all marriage if gay marriage couldn't be appropriately recongized and >condoned. Yes, I know it doesn't make much sense in one sense ... But >just goes to show that there are some strong feelings out here about our >country refusing to give validation to loving and committed couples - >and making stupid choices as a result! > >Peggy > >-----Original Message----- > >Dear Friends, > >I understand how easy it is for the many citizens who are >disappointed with the outcome of the elections to momentarily >forget that we are all citizens of the same country, whichever lever >we pulled in the voting booth. Or wherever we touched the screen, >as the case may be. > >Once the dust settles, we citizens may return to our primary task of >good stewardship of our Ship of State, care and concern for the >welfare of our neighbors from community to global, and we Friends >may return to our calling to cheerfully walk upon the Earth, >answering to that of G*d in every one. > >I think we will find that last particularly daunting if we regard our >fellow citizens as collectively ignorant, and view their deeply-held >spirituality as "Christian Taliban". I doubt we can be helpful to them >unless we are more open to connect on both a spiritual and an >intellectual level. > >It's important to remember that even among us Liberal Friends, >there is not universal acceptance of "gay marriage". Some Friends, >including some I know personally and do not consider to be >ignorant, find that they are unable to unite with the term "marriage" >being applied to couples of the same gender. > >How long has it been since we Quakers have been united in our >acceptance of homosexuality as natural and Divinely sanctified? >Was this a revelation given to George Fox? or did it take us >hundreds of years to get to this point? Do we dismiss our >forebearers as ignorant because the way had not yet opened for >them to be so enlightened? > >I wonder how many of us would unite in refraining from marriage of >heterosexual couples because we oppose discrimination against >homosexual couples. Which of us who are already enjoying the >rights and privileges of legal matrimony would willingly give up >those rights until such time as they are afforded to all couples? > >Steve > > > >_______________________________________________ >Southern Appalachian Yearly Meeting and Association mailing list >posting address: sayma at kitenet.net >subscribe/unsubscribe: http://kitenet.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sayma > > > _______________________________________________ Southern Appalachian Yearly Meeting and Association mailing list posting address: sayma at kitenet.net subscribe/unsubscribe: http://kitenet.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sayma Love & truth, agape & satyagraha, Tim Tim Johnson, e-mail: timinathens at yahoo.com "Love is a verb." -- Stephen Covey -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Rblissfam at cs.com Tue Nov 9 20:44:57 2004 From: Rblissfam at cs.com (Rblissfam at cs.com) Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 19:44:57 EST Subject: [saymaListserv] RE: sayma Digest, Vol 22, Issue 3 Message-ID: <55.65c76984.2ec2be89@cs.com> That's where I stand, too. And there are worship centers that will marry people of the same gender. Government just needs to approve the civil unions, man, woman, same sex, opposite sex. Legal document only. Rachael -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moriah at preferred.com Wed Nov 10 10:40:50 2004 From: moriah at preferred.com (Mary Calhoun) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:40:50 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] www.sorryeverybody.com Message-ID: <001301c4c733$4bd498e0$6464a2c6@abc> Dear Friends, A Samford faculty member, in posting from Nancy Whitt, said, "I have to keep reminding myself that 55,000,000 other Americans feel the way we do." http://www.sorryeverybody.com/ is a wonderful picture gallery. From the FAQ (worth reading in its own right)... "The Internet was supposed to make communication between cultures, countries and peoples painless and easy. It was supposed to build bridges. But it doesn't do this automatically; somebody has to reach out. The Internet was supposed to lead to education and understanding. It doesn't. Rarely do people on the internet apologize. [.....and rarely do we see the faces and oh-so-human homeplaces of people on the internet -- Mary] "I thought it was high time. The world needs to understand that there are people in America who don't like what our government is doing. And from the mail we're receiving, there are people in the international community who appreciate this." ^o^ \_/ Mary -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pennywright at earthlink.net Wed Nov 10 13:09:12 2004 From: pennywright at earthlink.net (Penelope Wright) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:09:12 -0600 Subject: [saymaListserv] [FGC] Good News Bulletin Message-ID: <009b01c4c748$0d730130$833045cf@user2ih5nie4yp> Dear SAYMA Friends, As one of SAYMA's appointed representatives to FGC's Central Committee I am excited to share this news from the FGC office. I believe that Perry Treadwell has sent an earlier message alluding to this historic minute and the process that brought it into being. I too was blessed to be present at its inception, the deep worship and discernment that surrounded it at Executive Committees and now at Central Committee. I would like to emphsize the statement that Central Committee does not have authority to speak on behalf of it affiliated meetings - this is a minute of the experience of that body and by no means is meant to tell others what their truth about this topic might be. Central Committe is not a policy making, directive body - it is committed to providing services and support for its affiliated yearly and monthly meetings. I am grateful for the trust SAYMA Friends have extended in appointing me one of their representatives to this Quaker organization. In that Love and Light, Penelope Wright Good News from Friends General Conference! One hundred and fifty Friends attended the 4-day annual sessions of FGC?s Central Committee last week. Every one of our fourteen affiliated yearly meetings, from Alaska to Florida, plus three non-affiliated but ?unprogrammed? yearly meetings?Pacific, North Pacific, and Iowa Conservative?were well represented. There was a tremendous energy in the sessions. Acknowledging that it has no authority to speak on behalf of its affiliated meetings, Central Committee saw its way clear to approve a powerful minute on our experience with lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and queer Friends: "Our experience has been that spiritual gifts are not distributed with regard to sexual orientation or gender identity. Our experience has been that our Gatherings and Central Committee work have been immeasurably enriched over the years by the full participation and Spirit-guided leadership of gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, and queer Friends. We will never go back to silencing those voices or suppressing those gifts. Our experience confirms that we are all equal before God, as God made us, and we feel blessed to be engaged in the work of FGC together." We also felt the weight of making important financial decisions that will be required as we implement the new Long Term Plan for 2004-2009. Moving forward with this work will involve new initiatives and expansion of existing programs that will require both more money and additional staff support. Consideration of this complex issue was deep and Spirit-led, and we eventually reached a place of true unity on how to proceed. Three days after the sessions, one Friend wrote about her experience as follows: "Though it was exhausting and painful at times, and confusing!, it was so full of the power of God?s love in our community that I returned home deeply, deeply grateful. That is what makes community: the challenge, the wrestling, the Love that grows and persists through it all." --- Friends General Conference 1216 Arch St #2B, Philadelphia PA 19107. USA http://www.fgcquaker.org The good news bulletin is sent by Barbara Hirshkowitz, FGC's publications manager. If you wish to unsubscribe please email her at barbarah at fgcquaker.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From freepolazzo at comcast.net Wed Nov 10 20:42:06 2004 From: freepolazzo at comcast.net (free polazzo) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:42:06 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] Good reading Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041110193913.02fc0db0@mail.comcast.net> HI I subscribe to the Viilage Voice on line. They had an article that is germane to what we have seen on SAYMA's list about the politics of gay marriage. Free - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Village Voice - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0445/conaway.php Cast Away Queering the Election by Laura Conaway Is gay marriage the new Nader? PS: Anyone who doesn't know how great NYC is hasn't been there. From jhminshall at comcast.net Thu Nov 11 13:56:42 2004 From: jhminshall at comcast.net (Janet Minshall) Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:56:42 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] gay marriage: Bush's trump card In-Reply-To: <2B123AD3FDBDF248B7F8DA9A8064F30EBD0501@exchange2.apsu.edu> References: <2B123AD3FDBDF248B7F8DA9A8064F30EBD0501@exchange2.apsu.edu> Message-ID: Hi Stuart, Sorry I'm late on this -- I'm just catching up with a backlog of messages. I agree in hindsight as well. I would never have asked anyone who was gay to hold off on pushing for marriage or civil union, but its clear that the issue and the referenda on constitutional amendments did, indeed, bring out the extreme Christian right in numbers not seen before. Free Polazzo and I were "joined" in a ceremony under the care of Atlanta Friends Meeting March 21, 1987. We chose not to involve the state in our union for many reasons, but one was that gay people could not choose marriage as an option. We were the first to choose to be "joined" rather than married by the meeting. Others have chosen that option since. I was Clerk of Atlanta Meeting when the first gay marriage or "joining" was performed in the gym of Horizons School, under the meeting's care, while we were in process of building our present meetinghouse. Atlanta Meeting continues to provide marriage or "joining" for anyone who requests such recognition and is willing to follow the meeting's guidelines (traditional practices of ascertaining clearness and presenting the request to the meeting as a whole at a regularly scheduled Meeting for Worship for Business, among others). Janet Minshall >What could have been: > >I support gay marriage. I wish now though in hindsight that the mayor of >San Francisco would have waited until January to take his public action >in support of gay marriage. That stance gave George Bush the fuel to >support a constitutional ban on gay marriage, a ban that he well knew >would not at time fly. That lead to the gay marriage ban initiatives >appearing on numerous state ballots. That energized the Christian >Taliban, many of whom sat out the last election. The Right Wing seized >on a wonderful opportunity to rally collective ignorance. >Stuart Bonnington > >_______________________________________________ >Southern Appalachian Yearly Meeting and Association mailing list >posting address: sayma at kitenet.net >subscribe/unsubscribe: http://kitenet.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sayma From losborne at cn.edu Fri Nov 12 18:34:21 2004 From: losborne at cn.edu (Larry Osborne) Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 17:34:21 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] Peace Institute Workshop in Knoxville Message-ID: Please announce/post/forward: Workshop entitled, "But What Can I Do for Peace?" sponsored by the PIET: Peace Institute of East Tennessee, scheduled for February 11-12, 2005 (see attachment). Thank you, Larry Osborne West Knoxville Friends Meeting -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: WCIAS WINTER WORKSHOP 2005.doc Type: application/msword Size: 30208 bytes Desc: WCIAS WINTER WORKSHOP 2005.doc URL: From moriah at preferred.com Sun Nov 14 09:25:04 2004 From: moriah at preferred.com (Mary Calhoun) Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 08:25:04 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] IMP^o^ 173 Rep Mtg ...mailbox near you! Message-ID: <009701c4ca56$b88c09c0$6464a2c6@abc> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ IMP ^o^ Bulletin 173 Coming to a mailbox near you! Rep Meeting registration packets for -- .............................................................. -- Dec 4, 2004, hosted by Chattanooga (TN) FM ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ <|> Registration packets have been mailed to the f/Friends listed below for the Dec 4th Winter Rep Meeting in Chattanooga TN. (Main session: 10:00 am Eastern) <|> Please register by Nov 18. The registrar will be "on holiday" during Thanksgiving week. <|> You may register by mail, phone, or e-mail. The person to register with is: <|> Becky Ingle 1106 Collins Circle, Chattanooga TN 37411 423-629-5914 becingle at bellsouth.net <|> Please see IMP^o^ 174 to find out what information to supply by e-mail or phone in order to register electronically. <|> You'll need to see a packet even if you register by phone or email (it contains directions, map, agenda, and other important information). If you aren't on the list below, please contact -- -- one of the people listed (3 people can register on one form) -- the SAYMA office AdminAsst at sayma.org 276-628-5852 or visit... -- http://www.sayma.org/online_documents.htm#RM%20Regis <|> If you could use help to arrange "green" travel (car-pooling) to Rep Mtg, please contact Bill Reynolds, cisland at aol.com. <|> If you should have been among the names below, and aren't, please let the SAYMA office know. Packets have been sent to f/Friends listed in the office as -- -- clerks/contacts for their meetings/worship groups -- SAYMA representatives from meetings & worship groups -- clerks & members of SAYMA committees -- SAYMA Clerks and Treasurer -- SAYMA's representatives to wider Quaker organizations -- SAYMA archivist & web manager, & SAF editors -- SAYF Admin Asst <|> If you're named below and don't need to be, please let the office know that too! <|> Mailed to, in meeting order... Free Polazzo . . . . . . Anneewakee Gary Briggs . . . . . . Asheville Barbara Esther . . . . . . Asheville Margaret Farmer . . . . . . Asheville Trina Farmer . . . . . . Asheville Joy Gosset . . . . . . Asheville Adrienne Labotka . . . . . . Asheville Steve Livingston . . . . . . Asheville J Pulliam C Watkins . . . . . . Athens Ellen Johnson . . . . . . Athens Cathianne Watkins . . . . . . Athens Kathy Burke . . . . . . Atlanta Susan Cozzens . . . . . . Atlanta Chris Duke . . . . . . Atlanta Beth Ensign . . . . . . Atlanta Jeremiah Gold-Hopton . . . . . . Atlanta Carol Gray . . . . . . Atlanta Karen terHorst Morris . . . . . . Atlanta Ronald Nuse . . . . . . Atlanta Perry Treadwell . . . . . . Atlanta Ceal Wutka . . . . . . Atlanta Mark Wutka . . . . . . Atlanta Tom Brawner . . . . . . Auburn Brian Boggs . . . . . . Berea Therese Hildebrand . . . . . . Berea Carol Lamm . . . . . . Berea Tim Lamm . . . . . . Berea Beth Myers . . . . . . Berea Judy Prince . . . . . . Birmingham Nancy Whitt . . . . . . Birmingham Gail Fannon . . . . . . Boone John Geary . . . . . . Boone Melissa Meyer . . . . . . Boone Bob French . . . . . . Brevard Joan Williams . . . . . . Brevard Jane Goldthwait . . . . . . Celo Joyce Johnson . . . . . . Celo Bob McGahey . . . . . . Celo Colin Sugioka . . . . . . Celo Marmon Thompson . . . . . . Celo Rachel Weir . . . . . . Celo Ray Lewis . . . . . . Charleston Steve Mininger . . . . . . Charleston Charles Schade . . . . . . Charleston Nancy Beecher . . . . . . Chattanooga Becky Ingle . . . . . . Chattanooga Larry Ingle . . . . . . Chattanooga Chuck Jones . . . . . . Chattanooga Bill Reynolds . . . . . . Chattanooga Peggy Bonnington . . . . . . Clarksville Nancy Winfrey . . . . . . Clemson Sallie Prugh . . . . . . Columbia Jerry Rudolph . . . . . . Columbia Julia Sibley-Jones . . . . . . Columbia Alice Wald . . . . . . Columbia Annie Black . . . . . . Cookeville Hazel Hall . . . . . . Cookeville Deanna Nipp . . . . . . Cookeville Gladys Draudt . . . . . . Crossville Dennis Gregg . . . . . . Crossville Errol Hess . . . . . . Foxfire Beth Keiter . . . . . . Foxfire Bob Keiter . . . . . . Foxfire Edie Patrick . . . . . . Foxfire Christopher Berg . . . . . . Greenville Scott Henderson . . . . . . Greenville Judy Guerry . . . . . . Huntsville Susan Phelan . . . . . . Huntsville David Ciscel . . . . . . Memphis Kristi Estes . . . . . . Memphis Debra Johnson . . . . . . Memphis Larry Jordan . . . . . . Memphis Ron McDonald . . . . . . Memphis Robert Pugh . . . . . . Memphis Wib Smith . . . . . . Murfreesboro Dick Houghton . . . . . . Nashville Jim McKeever . . . . . . Nashville John Potter . . . . . . Nashville Geoffrey Pratt . . . . . . Nashville Joyce Rouse . . . . . . Nashville Christina VanRegenmorter . . . . . . Nashville Penelope Wright . . . . . . Nashville Kim Carlyle . . . . . . New Moon/Swannanoa Susan Carlyle . . . . . . New Moon/Swannanoa Ginny Baumann . . . . . . Oxford Nan Johnson . . . . . . Oxford Daryl Bergquist . . . . . . Royal Douglas Price . . . . . . Sevier County Lyn Hutchinson . . . . . . Sewanee Tony Bing . . . . . . Swannanoa Anne Welsh . . . . . . Swannanoa Bob Welsh . . . . . . Swannanoa Bettina Wolff . . . . . . Swannanoa Sharon Annis . . . . . . W Knoxville Jim Hamill . . . . . . W Knoxville Kendall Ivie . . . . . . W Knoxville Missy Ivie . . . . . . W Knoxville Ernest Lee . . . . . . W Knoxville Hannah MacDermott . . . . . . W Knoxville Turtle MacDermott . . . . . . W Knoxville Kathleen Mavournin . . . . . . W Knoxville Carol Nickle . . . . . . W Knoxville Sharon Phelps . . . . . . W Knoxville Lee Ann Swarm . . . . . . W Knoxville ~~~~ end ^o^ ~~~~ postdate 111404 ~~~~ _____________________________ IMP ^o^ ... "Information Made Present" is a bulletin service of the SAYMA office to provide practical details to our geographically-challenged Yearly Meeting via our list-server: semi-official information, bulletins that you can print, post, announce, publish, or pass around. Please address questions, corrections, and additions to AdminAsst at sayma.org, or 276-628-5852 (machine; in-person Tu/Th 5-7:30p). Thank you! ^o^ ----------------------------------------------------- To receive IMP^o^ bulletins, subscribe to the list-server sayma at kitenet.net. You can subscribe on the web at http://kitenet.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sayma. ------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moriah at preferred.com Sun Nov 14 09:25:11 2004 From: moriah at preferred.com (Mary Calhoun) Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 08:25:11 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] IMP^o^ 174 Rep Meeting "e-registration" Message-ID: <009801c4ca56$b933e280$6464a2c6@abc> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ IMP ^o^ Bulletin 174 Information needed to register electronically for Winter Rep Meeting ... ............................................................................... but you still need to see a registration packet! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ <|> You can register by phone or e-mail for the Winter Rep Meeting scheduled for Dec 4th in Chattanooga TN. (Main session: 10:00 am Eastern time) <|> Please register by Nov 18. The registrar will be "on holiday" during Thanksgiving week. <|> Pre-registration is needed for lunch-planning, even if you're not staying overnight. <|> The person to register with is: <|> Becky Ingle 1106 Collins Circle, Chattanooga TN 37411 423-629-5914 becingle at bellsouth.net <|> You will need to see a registration packet even if you register by e-mail or phone; it contains maps, directions, agenda, and other important information. <|> If you don't have a packet, please -- -- check IMP ^o^173, to see if one was mailed to you, or ... -- contact a person who was listed in IMP ^o^173, or ... -- contact your meeting clerk, or ... -- visit http://www.sayma.org/online_documents.htm#RM%20Regis to download and print the materials, or ... -- contact the SAYMA office at 276-628-5852, AdminAsst at sayma.org <|> Meanwhile, IMP ^o^bulletins 172, 173, 174 and 175 will give you partial information. <|> Info needed for Rep Meeting registration: 1. If you need childcare please notify Becky right away. Childcare is very limited. 2. Your name, gender, and address. The registrar will not necessarily -- -- know your name from the e-mail address on your message -- recognize your gender from your name (it does matter for hospitality!) 3. Purpose for attending: (a) Rep Meeting, M&N, Yearly Mtg Planning, other (b) child; please give name(s), age(s) and special needs of child(ren) requiring care. 4. Meeting or Worship Group name 5. Your contact info: area code + phone number (& e-mail address if you have one). If giving both, please indicate the preferred means of communication 6. Hospitality needed (place to sleep & light breakfast provided by local f/Friend): (a) Please indicate people who can share a room... (b) ...& those who can share a bed. (c) Friday night for (#) ____ people. Expected time of arrival: ______ (d) Saturday night for (#) ____ people. Expected time of arrival: ____ (e) Please say who is arriving when, if the folks above are not all traveling together. (f) Any special needs? (Vegetarian, vegan, special diet, house without stairs, hills, wood smoke, pets, or a child-proof house, etc. ...?) 8. If you ask for hospitality, and your request hasn't been acknowledged by Nov 30, you can contact Becky Ingle (423-629-5914, becingle at bellsouth.net) if you want reassurance! 9. Cancellation: after registering, if you are unable to attend for any reason, please notify Becky Ingle as soon as possible at 423-629-5914, becingle at bellsouth.net. ~~~~~~ end ^o^ ~~~~~~ postdate 111404 ~~~~~~ ________________________________ IMP ^o^ ... "Information Made Present" is a bulletin service of the SAYMA office to provide practical details to our geographically-challenged Yearly Meeting via our free list-server: semi-official information, bulletins that you can print, post, announce, publish, or pass around. Please address questions, corrections and additions to AdminAsst at sayma.org, or 276-628-5852 (machine; in-person Tu/Th 5-7:30p). Thank you! ^o^ ----------------------------------------------------- To receive IMP ^o^ bulletins, subscribe to the free list server, sayma at kitenet.net. You can subscribe on the web at http://kitenet.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sayma. ------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moriah at preferred.com Sun Nov 14 09:25:20 2004 From: moriah at preferred.com (Mary Calhoun) Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 08:25:20 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] IMP^o^ 175 "green" travel to Rep Mtg Message-ID: <009901c4ca56$b9dbbb40$6464a2c6@abc> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ IMP ^o^ Bulletin 175 Earth-Friendly Travel to... ...Winter Rep Meeting in Chattanooga ----------------------------------------------- contact Bill Reynolds ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ (a standing offer from Bill Reynolds, Chattanooga FM, member of SAYMA Ecological Concerns Network ) <|> For f/Friends who don't already have a ride-share organized, and could use a hand finding one, Bill has volunteered to help organize car-pooling to the December 4 Rep Meeting in Chattanooga. <|> If you're looking for riders, please let him know -- a) how many spaces are available in the vehicle b) where it will be leaving from c) when it will be departing d) general route planned e) when it will arrive at Rep Meeting f) when it will be returning <|> If you're seeking to 'hitch a ride,' please let him know - a) how many you are b) where you will be leaving from c) when you need to depart d) where you could meet a ride e) when you need to arrive at Rep Meeting f) when you need to return home <|> Bill Reynolds' contact info - cisland at aol.com 423-624-6821 3529 Dell Trail, Chattanooga TN 37411 ~~~~~~ end ^o^ ~~~~~~ 1stpost 111404 ~~~~~~ _______________________________________ IMP ^o^ ... "Information Made Present" is a bulletin service of the SAYMA office to provide practical details to our geographically-challenged Yearly Meeting via our free list-server: semi-official information, bulletins that you can print, post, announce, publish, or pass around. Please address questions, corrections and additions to AdminAsst at sayma.org, 276-628-5852 (machine), or SAYMA Admin. Asst., PO Box 2191, Abingdon, VA 24212-2191. Thank you! ^o^ ----------------------------------------------------- To receive IMP^o^ bulletins, subscribe to the free list server, sayma at kitenet.net. You can subscribe on the web at http://kitenet.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sayma. ------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moriah at preferred.com Mon Nov 15 22:28:27 2004 From: moriah at preferred.com (Mary Calhoun) Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 21:28:27 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] Fw: New book "Peace Women" Message-ID: <029c01c4cb8f$9f74a480$6464a2c6@abc> Friends, This message was received at the SAYMA office. ^o^ \_/ Mary AdminAsst at sayma.org 276-628-5852 POB 2191, Abingdon VA 24212-2191 ----- Original Message ----- From: anne rueffer To: adminasst at sayma.org Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 12:52 PM Subject: Fw: New book "Peace Women" Dear friends May I ask for your support? It would be a great help for our little book program if you would send this message to all the people you know and of whom you think they could be interested in this special book. With a big thank to you and warm regards Anne Rüffer, author Peace Women We are very happy and proud to introduce a book to you today, which came into being in a very special way. How we realized this project is described in the attachment >summary<. The way ahead for this book is very interesting too: By special invitation of the Swiss Ambassy in Warsaw I had the great honour to present the book at the OSCE-Conference on October 13, 2004. On November 23, Peace Women will be presented to the participants and international media at the Mubarak-Conference "Women defending Peace" in a discussion with Jody Williams (Nobel Peace Prize 1997). See details of the program: www.dcaf.ch/wdp Angelika U. Reutter, Anne Rüffer Peace Women The eleven Women who received the Nobel Peace Prize 1905 - 2003, from Bertha von Suttner to Shirin Ebadi Introduction by Micheline Calmy-Rey 256 Seiten, Hardcover, big size Euro 32.60, CHF 48.00, £ 24.00, USD 48.00 plus shipping cost ISBN 3-907625-20-X (easiest way to find it in the internetbookshops) Available/Erhältlich: amazon.co.uk; amazon.com; amazon.ch; amazon.de;; amazon.jp; libri.de; any bookshop or per E-mail by ruefferundrub at bluewin.ch Thank you very much! Anne Rüffer Attachments: Summary, 2 Photos Rüffer&Rub Sachbuchverlag Konkordiastrasse 20 CH-8032 Zürich Tel ++ 41 1 381 77 30 Fax ++ 41 1 381 77 54 ruefferundrub at bluewin.ch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PeaceWomen.cover_english.jpg.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 43807 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Summary F.doc Type: application/msword Size: 27136 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bright_crow at mindspring.com Wed Nov 17 16:08:09 2004 From: bright_crow at mindspring.com (Mike Shell) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:08:09 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Subject: [saymaListserv] "Riverbend" writes about Falloojeh Message-ID: <10172619.1100722089683.JavaMail.root@wamui06.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Friends, I couldn't stand to read these stories, but I need to share it with you. "Riverbend" is the weblog name of a native Iraqi woman writing from Baghdad. Here are here the three latest ones: American Heroes... http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/2004_11_01_riverbendblog_archive.html#110063119588554403 Murder... http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/2004_11_01_riverbendblog_archive.html#110029588434930934 One of Those Weeks... http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/2004_11_01_riverbendblog_archive.html#110021121509615852 How do we stop of nation? Blessed Be, Michael. From moriah at preferred.com Wed Nov 17 16:11:57 2004 From: moriah at preferred.com (Mary Calhoun) Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:11:57 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] "...exactly the same number of peacemakers..." Message-ID: <003401c4cce1$dd002a60$6464a2c6@abc> Dear f/Friends, The following, with his permission, is a forward-of-a-forward from Hibbard Thatcher. Mary Calhoun ------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Thatcher" To: Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 8:31 PM Subject: FWD: Why I am not Bummed out today > Carl > > Here's the piece from Peggy Parsons. > > Jay T. > >----------------------------------- > > > >Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 09:52:03 -0800 > >To: Jay Thatcher > >From: Wayne Yarnall > >Subject: FWD: Why I am not Bummed out today > > >>Jay, > > > >This message from Peggy Parsons, Pastor, Freedom Friends Church has given > >me hope. > > > >Wayne >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >November 3, 2004 > > > >Ok, I was a little depressed this morning for about an hour, things > >didn't exactly go my way in the election - especially the things > >I cared the most about - but the depression didn't last long. > > > >On about the second cup of coffee the sun broke through the fog, and my > >magnificent Maple tree was still lit up like fire in my front yard. It > >has rained sideways for two days here in Salem, and when it started I > >thought, "well, that is the end of the color show", but somehow those > >crimson and gold leaves hung on until today. I took it as an omen. > > > >Then I washed my face and put my sneakers on and went to Freedom Friends > >ministry and oversight committee. And I started to remember a few > >things. > > > >First, being in power is never a good thing for the Body of Christ. > >Mixing power and faith is always bad for faith. Constantine turned > >Christian martyrs into Inquisitors by making the Faith legal and > >mandatory. Our Puritan founders came to this country to escape > >persecution, established their own legal faith and started burning people > >and hanging people right off the bat. Some of those killed were > >Quakers. In Europe where they have state religions, religious devotion > >has dropped to all time lows. The right-wing, religious fundamentalists > >may think that they won yesterday -- they may actually have won. But I > >assure you -- it won't be good for them. The infighting will start and it > >will start soon, watch with me. > > > >On the other hand, being out of power -- even persecuted -- is always good > >for the faith. I knew an old Quaker missionary who spent years in > >China. It was a hard gig, so little ground was made. Then Mao came > >along, chased the missionaries out and declared atheism to be the state > >religion. No one got in for about twenty years, but when they did they > >found millions of indigenous Chinese Christians. Faith sometimes grows > >strongest in bad soil with a toxic wind. > > > >Today I have the good fortune to have been given a Divine commission to > >build a liberal, loving, inclusive church. Today there are many people > >here in Salem feeling bummed and alienated and ostracized. I intend to > >work my tail off giving them a place to feel welcomed and accepted. The > >conditions couldn't be better for me. > > > >Second, when it comes to the issue of allowing gay and lesbian full civil > >and religious rights, I know I am working on the side of Justice and > >Love. This is never a bad long-term investment. And there is no other > >ground that I would rather be standing on. Our Quaker ancestors were on > >the cutting edge of all kinds of Loving Justice issues; abolition, > >women's rights, mental health treatment, prison reform, civil rights. > >Many of them worked their lifetimes to see justice come into flower. > > Some of them died before they saw it. (Yes, I mean that exactly > > as I wrote it! - I think they saw it after they died, and see it now.) > > It was a tough road while they worked, but they became > > heroes. We are working to be the heroes of our > > great-grandchildren. Let us not let them down! > > > >And I know that the other side thinks that they too are working for love > >and justice - but this is in our favor. For it is the ground we will > >eventually win on. Open hatred is the minority, and it is entrenched and > >hard to beat on the heart level. But most of the people on the > >other side of this issue are not really hate-filled. And because of > >that, Love will eventually win. > > > >"Love never fails" -- Paul the Apostle. > > > >I know that many are really hurting today. The hope of many young voters > >has been stung -- we must speak up and tell them that they have taken > >courageous first steps in a life long journey. I know that there are at > >least 6,000 people in Oregon who just had their most personal precious > >relationship put to public referendum and rejected. I can only imagine > >what it would be like to have the validity of my marriage put on the > >ballot. But we have to stand beside them and tell them that they are not > >alone, and that the fight is not over. We have to give them places where > >their relationships are honored and nurtured. There is no law or > >constitution that can stop us from doing this. > > > >It looks like Peace has taken a blow, but do not be deceived. War and > >strife is always based in fear and deceit -- we can fight these things, > >our only real enemies. There is always something you can do. You > >always have a choice. Are you afraid of a draft? Well, we have run > >an underground railroad before, and we can do it again if we need > >to. We have gone to jail before, and walked out victorious. > > > >Last, I remembered that there are exactly the same number of peacemakers, > >and justice builders, and love encouragers in the world today as > >yesterday. I am one, you are one, there are millions of us, and we are > >just as talented, and determined and confidant as ever. No election can > >stop this work, or undo a mite of its produce. > > > >I love this country. I even like it most of the time. I have seen > >anarchy and chaos in the third world and -- trust me -- this with all its > >faults, this is still a good deal. But I am first a citizen of another > >country, one that is not bound by time or geography, one that is not > >affected by fear or greed or ignorance. It is the only country that gets > >my full allegiance, and the only army I will fight in. It is the Kingdom > >of Christ, and He is my sovereign and friend, and co-creator. And when I > >work and fight for His cause, it can only benefit this temporal realm. > > > >So pick yourself up! Shake it off, and let's get to work. The need is > >great, the situation is favorable to our cause, and we have nothing to > >fear. >> > >Truth arrives in funny places. I saw this on the back of a shirt today > >at Muchas Gracias Drive Through. >> > >"What lies behind us, and what lies before us, is nothing compared >>to what lies within us" > > > >AMEN >> >>Yours faithfully, > >Peggy Senger Parsons > >Pastor, Freedom Friends Church > >www.Freedomfriends.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moriah at preferred.com Sun Nov 21 23:11:50 2004 From: moriah at preferred.com (Mary Calhoun) Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 22:11:50 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] Fw: election reflections Message-ID: <04b901c4d04c$8927df00$6464a2c6@abc> Dear Friends, The message below seems to have got caught up in the inner workings of our listserv software, ending up in the office in-box. ^o^ \_/ Mary AdminAsst at sayma.org 276-628-5852 POB 2191, Abingdon VA 24212-2191 ----- Original Message ----- From: Helen Ensign Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 10:08 PM Subject: election reflections dear friends. This is my brother David's new blog. His reflections on the election speak to my condition. I thought some of you might also connect with his thoughts. http://faithfulagitation.blogspot.com/ Helen E. (Beth) Ensign hensign at mindspring.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moriah at preferred.com Mon Nov 22 14:33:56 2004 From: moriah at preferred.com (Mary Calhoun) Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 13:33:56 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] While ... U.S. counties passed anti-gay measures ... the retired king of Cambodia... Message-ID: <000601c4d0cc$6f3a1600$6464a2c6@abc> Dear Friends, >From the daily "Top Stories from AlterNet" email that comes to my in-box. ^o^ \_/ Mary Calhoun ------------------------------ COMPASSION IN CAMBODIA Cyril Chin-Kidess, Pacific News Service While many U.S. counties passed anti-gay measures in the last election, the retired king of Cambodia declares that as a "liberal democracy," Cambodia should allow "marriage between man and man ... or between woman and woman." He follows it up by making at least one foreign couple feel at home. http://www.alternet.org/rights/20550/ -------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From freepolazzo at comcast.net Tue Nov 23 09:02:52 2004 From: freepolazzo at comcast.net (free polazzo) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 08:02:52 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] Fwd: [afmdiscussion] Fw: I am a Christian ,too. Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041123075430.03032dc0@mail.comcast.net> Hi, This article, which was posted on the Atlanta Friends Meeting list, may be helpful in understanding the sadness that many of us feel about how hard it has become to discuss issues that are important to each of us. When a group decides it "owns" God, then trouble is sure to follow for all. When facts can be called theories and when theories can be called facts, anything goes. The person with the loudest voice wins. The person with the biggest guns, wins. The person with the most toys, wins. Or do they? Blessings, Free >I am a Christian, too >It's time to take religion back from the haters, killers and temple >money-changers >BY JOHN F. SUGG > >There's a bit of schoolin' that God-fearing folks in Cobb County and the >rest of the nation should pay heed to as they cheer the creationist team >in a federal lawsuit heard last week. > >The legal spat, over a warning plastered in Cobb schools' biology texts >that evolution is merely a "theory" and not a "fact," has the world press >in a tizzy now that evangelicals are perceived as political 900-pound >gorillas (probably not a great metaphor when talking about evolution). > >Thank God (so to speak) for Cobb County, always good for when scribes need >a bit of bizarre to substitute for news. > >Still, there is a "gol darn, I didn't know that!" lesson hidden in the >Cobb evolution brouhaha, one that should be important to every Christian. >It's a gem from the earlier "monkey" trial, the 1925 drama that starred >teacher John Scopes, who challenged Tennessee's anti-evolution statute. >The advocate for the religious side was William Jennings Bryan, one of the >great men of principle in American history. > >But, oh, heavens, Bryan was a died-in-the-wool liberal. He generally was >described as a "populist," but in the parlance of the late 19th century, >that meant liberal. Bryan volunteered in the Spanish-American War; that >experience turned him into a fervent pacifist bitterly opposed to the >nascent American imperialism. As Woodrow Wilson's secretary of state, he >jawboned the 30 leading world powers to agree to a one-year cooling-off >period before going to war -- no pre-emptive slaughter for Bryan. > >Dubbed "the Great Commoner," he castigated the capitalists as enemies of >common folk. Among his most ardent allies in a 1896 presidential bid was >American socialist leader Eugene V. Debs. > >In short, Bryan was a man who would have earned the scorn of Karl Rove, >Rush Limbaugh and Trent Lott. If he was reincarnated and ran today for a >U.S. Senate seat in Georgia, Saxby Chambliss would air commercials putting >Bryan's mug alongside Saddam's and Osama's -- just as he did to Max Cleland. > >But hold on a minute. Bryan also was a fundamentalist Christian. At the >Scopes trial, he thundered, "I believe everything in the Bible should be >accepted as it is given there." He was born again, he was an evangelical. > >The nation, especially the South, bestowed great reverence on Bryan, who >died a few months after the Scopes trial. Country and western balladeer >Andrew Jenkins, a Georgia boy, sang these words in tribute: "Oh, who will >go and end this fight, oh, who will be the man?/To face the learned and >mighty foe, and for the Bible stand?" > >Let's wind forward 79 years. Bob Jones III is president of the racist Bob >Jones University in Greenville, a favorite haunt of George Bush. Jones, a >storm trooper of the religious reich-wing vanguard that claims ownership >of Bush, sternly admonished the president after the election, "You owe the >liberals nothing. They despise you because they despise your Christ." Ah, >I get it. Bush & Co. own Christ. > >The letter also underscores the message hammered home so successfully by >the GOP during the recent campaign: Liberals despise Christ.That's a lie. > >The example of William Jennings Bryan -- and millions of others -- makes >clear that ultra-conservatives don't have an exclusive claim on Christ. >It's time for Christians to start giving witness to that fact. > >I've warmed you up with a little literary napalm. But what I'm going to >write next isn't easy. It's the sort of thing journalists aren't >comfortable acknowledging. Here it goes ... > >I testify that I am a Christian. I have been ever since I came forward at >a Billy Graham revival when I was 8 years old. I later fell from grace and >had a lot of dark years I'll have to account for on Judgment Day. My life >did not turn around until, 14 years ago, I got down on my knees and >prayed. That's something I do every day now. I prefer small churches to >the show palaces; Christ said to pray in private. I've felt called to be a >minister, but figure I'd get to do less preaching than with this gig. > >I don't pay heed to the false prophets such as Pat Robertson and Tim >LaHaye of the Left Behind books because Christ said to beware of >charlatans claiming to know when He is coming again. > >The "rapture" isn't in the Bible, so it's not in my theology. I find it >hard to conceive of Jesus returning to save a few smug Pharisees such as >Jerry Falwell while brutally slaying billions of my brothers and sisters. >The heaven I believe in has ample room for all men and women of all faiths >who seek God and try to live good lives. > >In the Book of Matthew, Jesus said, "Not everyone who saith 'Lord, Lord,' >shall enter the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father >... ." He told us his Father's will was to be meek; to be peacemakers; to >take care of the weak, the poor, the afflicted; to sheathe the sword. > >I believe there is truth in every word of the Bible, but as Bryan said >during the Scopes trial, "Some of the Bible is given illustratively." I >also believe there is truth in other faiths' scriptures, and I study them, >too. > >All Americans are invested in the debate over "values." It's time for >Christians to take back our religion from people who have commandeered it >simply to squeeze political advantage. > >I believe the Ten Commandments have more impact if they are carved on our >hearts than if they are hung in government buildings. I believe our >leaders have broken one of those commandments by bearing false witness in >concocting lies out of whole cloth that led us into war. I believe that >"elective" war is another word for murder, and war to grab other peoples' >oil is coveting and theft -- more broken commandments. > >War is not a Christian value. I'm a Methodist, and our literature clearly >states, "We believe war is incompatible with the teachings and example of >Christ." > >In short, George Bush hasn't earned the photographic halo that our local >gutless daily newspaper bestowed upon him on Nov. 5's front page. > >The neutron bomb in the values debate -- the device that allegedly sunk >John Kerry -- was gay marriage. I don't have the answers to questions >about gays. Jesus didn't say a word about homosexuality, but he did say >love your neighbor. That's enough for me. > >What I do know is that gays don't threaten my marriage. The divorce rates >are much higher in anti-gay Southern states than in gay-friendly >Massachusetts and New York. Among Christians, the born-again variety has >the highest incidence of divorce, according to a poll by Christian >researcher George Barna. There are some lessons in those numbers. > >The gay issue has been used solely to create fear and division, and as >Jesus said, "Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to >desolation." Thank you, GOP legislators. > >The reason, most agree, that divorce is higher here is because of the >impoverishment of the South, much of it the result of Bush's >enrich-the-already-rich economics. For a final personal belief, I think >Jesus was on the money when he said, "It is easier for a camel to go >through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of >God." Pretty simple language. > >Amen. > >Group Senior Editor John Sugg can be reached at 404-614-1241 or at >john.sugg at creativeloafing.com. Quotes from the Scopes trial came from >Summer of the Gods by Ed Larson. > > >11.18.04 > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bonnipeg at charter.net Mon Nov 29 02:59:34 2004 From: bonnipeg at charter.net (Peggy Bonnington) Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 00:59:34 -0600 Subject: [saymaListserv] RE: sayma Digest, Vol 22, Issue 20 In-Reply-To: <20041124120004.73170180EC@kitenet.net> Message-ID: <004e01c4d5e0$fbef4890$864a7044@default> Oh dear, Free: Isn't this a dire and challenging time? I thank God (and other deities or names thereof) for folks like you who pay such close attention and share / attempt to educate us all. I personally am becoming increasingly less able to "read" these days; it all seems so pointless. Truth and logic (as they would seem) fall on deaf or stupid ears - and have no impact on the actual "reality" which unwinds before us. Which gets back to why I can't read these days (or accurately interact/ respond): I want to SHOUT, rend clothing, demand reparation, do other dramatic (nonviolent?) things - all of which (including the calm articulate voice of reason) are rendered totally impotent in today's scenario of accepted insanity. Needless to say, I could go on ... But probably without much more coherence or logic (at this point) than those I accuse. Again, thank you for continuing to pay attention and speak your voice. Love / peace / health, Peggy -----Original Message----- Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 08:02:52 -0500 From: free polazzo Subject: I am a Christian,too. Hi, This article, which was posted on the Atlanta Friends Meeting list, may be helpful in understanding the sadness that many of us feel about how hard it has become to discuss issues that are important to each of us. When a group decides it "owns" God, then trouble is sure to follow for all. When facts can be called theories and when theories can be called facts, anything goes. The person with the loudest voice wins. The person with the biggest guns, wins. The person with the most toys, wins. Or do they? Blessings, Free >I am a Christian, too >It's time to take religion back from the haters, killers and temple >money-changers >BY JOHN F. SUGG > >There's a bit of schoolin' that God-fearing folks in Cobb County and >the >rest of the nation should pay heed to as they cheer the creationist team >in a federal lawsuit heard last week. > >The legal spat, over a warning plastered in Cobb schools' biology texts >that evolution is merely a "theory" and not a "fact," has the world press >in a tizzy now that evangelicals are perceived as political 900-pound >gorillas (probably not a great metaphor when talking about evolution). > >Thank God (so to speak) for Cobb County, always good for when scribes >need >a bit of bizarre to substitute for news. > >Still, there is a "gol darn, I didn't know that!" lesson hidden in the >Cobb evolution brouhaha, one that should be important to every Christian. >It's a gem from the earlier "monkey" trial, the 1925 drama that starred >teacher John Scopes, who challenged Tennessee's anti-evolution statute. >The advocate for the religious side was William Jennings Bryan, one of the >great men of principle in American history. > >But, oh, heavens, Bryan was a died-in-the-wool liberal. He generally >was >described as a "populist," but in the parlance of the late 19th century, >that meant liberal. Bryan volunteered in the Spanish-American War; that >experience turned him into a fervent pacifist bitterly opposed to the >nascent American imperialism. As Woodrow Wilson's secretary of state, he >jawboned the 30 leading world powers to agree to a one-year cooling-off >period before going to war -- no pre-emptive slaughter for Bryan. > >Dubbed "the Great Commoner," he castigated the capitalists as enemies >of >common folk. Among his most ardent allies in a 1896 presidential bid was >American socialist leader Eugene V. Debs. > >In short, Bryan was a man who would have earned the scorn of Karl Rove, >Rush Limbaugh and Trent Lott. If he was reincarnated and ran today for a >U.S. Senate seat in Georgia, Saxby Chambliss would air commercials putting >Bryan's mug alongside Saddam's and Osama's -- just as he did to Max Cleland. > >But hold on a minute. Bryan also was a fundamentalist Christian. At the >Scopes trial, he thundered, "I believe everything in the Bible should be >accepted as it is given there." He was born again, he was an evangelical. > >The nation, especially the South, bestowed great reverence on Bryan, >who >died a few months after the Scopes trial. Country and western balladeer >Andrew Jenkins, a Georgia boy, sang these words in tribute: "Oh, who will >go and end this fight, oh, who will be the man?/To face the learned and >mighty foe, and for the Bible stand?" > >Let's wind forward 79 years. Bob Jones III is president of the racist >Bob >Jones University in Greenville, a favorite haunt of George Bush. Jones, a >storm trooper of the religious reich-wing vanguard that claims ownership >of Bush, sternly admonished the president after the election, "You owe the >liberals nothing. They despise you because they despise your Christ." Ah, >I get it. Bush & Co. own Christ. > >The letter also underscores the message hammered home so successfully >by >the GOP during the recent campaign: Liberals despise Christ.That's a lie. > >The example of William Jennings Bryan -- and millions of others -- >makes >clear that ultra-conservatives don't have an exclusive claim on Christ. >It's time for Christians to start giving witness to that fact. > >I've warmed you up with a little literary napalm. But what I'm going to >write next isn't easy. It's the sort of thing journalists aren't >comfortable acknowledging. Here it goes ... > >I testify that I am a Christian. I have been ever since I came forward >at >a Billy Graham revival when I was 8 years old. I later fell from grace and >had a lot of dark years I'll have to account for on Judgment Day. My life >did not turn around until, 14 years ago, I got down on my knees and >prayed. That's something I do every day now. I prefer small churches to >the show palaces; Christ said to pray in private. I've felt called to be a >minister, but figure I'd get to do less preaching than with this gig. > >I don't pay heed to the false prophets such as Pat Robertson and Tim >LaHaye of the Left Behind books because Christ said to beware of >charlatans claiming to know when He is coming again. > >The "rapture" isn't in the Bible, so it's not in my theology. I find it >hard to conceive of Jesus returning to save a few smug Pharisees such as >Jerry Falwell while brutally slaying billions of my brothers and sisters. >The heaven I believe in has ample room for all men and women of all faiths >who seek God and try to live good lives. > >In the Book of Matthew, Jesus said, "Not everyone who saith 'Lord, >Lord,' >shall enter the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father >... ." He told us his Father's will was to be meek; to be peacemakers; to >take care of the weak, the poor, the afflicted; to sheathe the sword. > >I believe there is truth in every word of the Bible, but as Bryan said >during the Scopes trial, "Some of the Bible is given illustratively." I >also believe there is truth in other faiths' scriptures, and I study them, >too. > >All Americans are invested in the debate over "values." It's time for >Christians to take back our religion from people who have commandeered it >simply to squeeze political advantage. > >I believe the Ten Commandments have more impact if they are carved on >our >hearts than if they are hung in government buildings. I believe our >leaders have broken one of those commandments by bearing false witness in >concocting lies out of whole cloth that led us into war. I believe that >"elective" war is another word for murder, and war to grab other peoples' >oil is coveting and theft -- more broken commandments. > >War is not a Christian value. I'm a Methodist, and our literature >clearly >states, "We believe war is incompatible with the teachings and example of >Christ." > >In short, George Bush hasn't earned the photographic halo that our >local >gutless daily newspaper bestowed upon him on Nov. 5's front page. > >The neutron bomb in the values debate -- the device that allegedly sunk >John Kerry -- was gay marriage. I don't have the answers to questions >about gays. Jesus didn't say a word about homosexuality, but he did say >love your neighbor. That's enough for me. > >What I do know is that gays don't threaten my marriage. The divorce >rates >are much higher in anti-gay Southern states than in gay-friendly >Massachusetts and New York. Among Christians, the born-again variety has >the highest incidence of divorce, according to a poll by Christian >researcher George Barna. There are some lessons in those numbers. > >The gay issue has been used solely to create fear and division, and as >Jesus said, "Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to >desolation." Thank you, GOP legislators. > >The reason, most agree, that divorce is higher here is because of the >impoverishment of the South, much of it the result of Bush's >enrich-the-already-rich economics. For a final personal belief, I think >Jesus was on the money when he said, "It is easier for a camel to go >through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of >God." Pretty simple language. > >Amen. > >Group Senior Editor John Sugg can be reached at 404-614-1241 or at >john.sugg at creativeloafing.com. Quotes from the Scopes trial came from >Summer of the Gods by Ed Larson. > > >11.18.04 > >