From bright_crow at mindspring.com Tue Mar 1 22:05:35 2005 From: bright_crow at mindspring.com (Michael Austin Shell) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2005 21:05:35 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] SEYM Peace & Social Concerns Site: Third Month Update Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20050301205906.029203f0@pop.mindspring.com> Friends, I invite you to visit http://seympeace.org/ for some Third Month updates. In particular, I encourage you to check out some important new links under What's NEW? http://seympeace.org/#NEW (including Chuck Fager's interview on The O'Reilly Factor, and several items about soldiers who have refused to return to duty in Iraq). Also, please consider the Thought for Third Month http://seympeace.org/#THOUGHT and my appended Web Editor's Note http://seympeace.org/#NOTE Blessed Be, Michael. From earthsteward at urisp.net Tue Mar 1 16:26:58 2005 From: earthsteward at urisp.net (Daryl Bergquist) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2005 14:26:58 -0600 Subject: [saymaListserv] Peak Oil Message-ID: <4224D012.5090901@urisp.net> Dear Friends, Through my work as a solar and energy efficiency consultant, I have been introduced to and found useful, the concepts of Peak Oil. In the context of unfolding world events such as the rising price of oil, I have become clear that it is time to share these concepts so that you my friends, and others, may use them to help understand our current situation. It is my hope that these understandings can aid and empower us to act constructively for our collective future. _Peak Oil is the understanding that:_ Oil (and natural gas) are limited resources. We are extracting and consuming them at an ever increasing rates. This rate is orders of magnitude greater than they being replenished. Therefore, at some point the rate at which we extract and consume them will stop increasing and begin to decline. This point is referred to as the Peak. _There are several corollaries to Peak Oil:_ The peak can only be determined in retrospect. The peak occurs when approximately half of the resource has been extracted. Through major effort and expense, the peak can be slightly postponed, and the resultant decline will be sharper and more problematic. The peak marks the end of the era of abundant cheap oil, after that oil will become increasingly more scarce and the price will continue to rise. The peak will come, extraction and consumption of oil and natural gas will decline. The questions are: When will the peak occur? What does this mean? What can we do? WHEN WILL THE PEAK OCCUR? This is the big question. The longest predicted time is a couple of decades from now. Many sources indicate that the peak is imminent or has already occurred. Some relevant information: According to the US Census Bureau and the U.S. Energy Information Administration, http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/petroleu.html#IntlConsumption , the current resident U.S. population is 4.6% of the world's population and we consume just over 25% of the world's oil consumption. This is 5.4 times our share. The U.S. has used exponentially more oil each year since 2001. China, and to a lesser extent India, are rapidly increasing their demand for oil as they industrialize. The International Energy Agency in its 2/10/05 Oil Market Report predicts that world demand for oil will exceed world supply in the first quarter of 2005. http://omrpublic.iea.org/ The Senior Vice President of Exxon Mobile recently stated that due to the 4% to 6% declining output of existing fields, meeting expected world oil demand for 2020 is nearly equivalent to replacing all of today's daily production. http://www2.exxonmobil.com/Corporate/Newsroom/NewsReleases/xom_nr_110105.asp Many financial analysts are speculating that soon supplies for oil will be inadequate for demand. They speak of declining fields, oil companies not replacing the oil they extract with new reserves, and oil exporting countries (like Indonesia, currently a member of OPEC) becoming oil importers. A Google search of "oil prices" has found such articles daily. Some countries are preparing for a transition to alternatives. Governments in Japan and several European countries are encouraging wind and photovoltaic (solar) electricity generation. Germany purchased half of the world's production of photovoltaic (solar electric) modules last year. Due to the increased demand, photovoltaic modules are increasing in price and lead time for delivery. WHAT THIS MEANS: There will be less and less oil and we will be paying more and more for it. This is significant because: The majority of the worlds energy and the feedstock for many materials comes from oil and gas. The world's finances are based on an economy that must expand to remain solvent. Over the past century, an ever increasing consumption of oil has fed this expansion. The world's supply and therefore, consumption of oil will soon be contracting. WHAT WE CAN DO: Reduce our consumption of oil and gas for the following activities: Transportation (including for food and supplies). Heating and cooling. Lighting, appliances and water heating. Agriculture and manufacturing HOW WE DO THIS: Cooperate - use the same energy for several people (like sharing rides) Energy efficiency - use less energy to accomplish the same tasks Conservation - doing less and wasting less Co-generation - use the same energy to accomplish multiple tasks Renewable energy - sun, wind, small-scale hydro, bio fuels Growing food and providing other needs locally Integrated whole systems design (including design of communities) Useful knowledge and technologies exist (and more are being developed every day). We need to apply them wisely. This means a change in how we, as a society, live. From my own experience, it can be a change for the better. Toward a world that works for all, Daryl Bergquist Earth Steward Consulting 442 Red Maple Road, Blountsville, AL 35051 (205) 429-3088 earthsteward at urisp.net Resources: The best overview article I've found on Peak Oil. Includes a description of Marion Hubbert's successful prediction in the 1950s of the peak and subsequent decline of oil extraction in the continental U.S. which occurred in the early 1970s. Discusses implications and alternatives for today and for the future. From the newsletter of California Institute of Technology http://pr.caltech.edu/periodicals/CaltechNews/articles/v38/oil.html The Oil Depletion Analysis Center provides links to many articles on Peak Oil, http://www.odac-info.org/ The Association for the Study of Peak Oil and Gas provides analysis and predictions regarding Peak Oil. They currently predict that world oil production will peak in 2006. http://www.peakoil.net/ Community Solutions promotes small local self reliant communities as a solution to Peak Oil. http://www.communitysolution.org/ "Winning the Oil Endgame" is a book from the Rocky Mountain Institute. It promotes a business solution to dwindling oil that relies on increased efficiency, lighter weight cars, biofuels, fuel cells and renewable energy. http://www.oilendgame.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nc_stereoman at charter.net Thu Mar 3 10:45:28 2005 From: nc_stereoman at charter.net (Steve Livingston) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 09:45:28 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] Peak Oil In-Reply-To: <4224D012.5090901@urisp.net> Message-ID: <4226DCB8.31083.52DD61@localhost> Friends, Daryl sent out his "Peak Oil" essay to a few people prior to posting it on the listserv. I replied to his essay, offering a somewhat different perspective on the issue, and he has asked me to post it here. It may well be that a significant amount of petrol is trapped in such inaccessible strata that it would require more energy than can be extracted from a bbl of refined petrol to extract a barrel of crude. So defining "peak oil" as the point at which half of the petrol is still in the ground is somewhat counterintuitive if a goodly portion of that half is not economically extractable. A somewhat more practical definition IMHO is derived from looking at the continuum of cost-of-extraction. In the beginning, discovery of new resources vastly outpaced increasing demand, and as extraction technology improved, the energy cost per bbl of extracted crude declined significantly. It became extremely profitable to extract far more than the market demanded, as the storage of reserves cost far less than what the stored reserves were worth. Coming up to present day, we see a steady decline in discovery of new resources, with known resources requiring increasing amounts of energy to extract, and demand rising so fast that stockpiles of reserves are being depleted because the value of the stored reserves is less than the cost of increasing the rate of extraction. This point in time is the alternative definition of "peak oil": the point in time where the cost of increasing the rate of extraction of known resources became greater than the cost of depleting stored reserves. Using this definition, we can look backward from the present day and place the point of "Peak Oil" about fourteen years in the past. Remarkably, this point coincides almost exactly with the first invasion of Iraq. Estimates that I have read indicate that there remains somewhat more than 600 Billion bbl of petrol in the ground worldwide, perhaps as much as 1 Trillion bbl. These numbers sound very large indeed until one factors in the actual rates of consumption, currently about 30 Billion bbl per year and growing at a current rate of 8% per year. At this rate, all of the petrol will be depleted in far less than twenty years, not merely half, but all. In fact, half of the world's known petrol has just about been depleted already, so even by your definition, "Peak Oil" is upon us. It is a curious anomaly of our current political climate that citizens are being cajoled and scared into allowing the government to borrow several Trillion dollars to forestall a Social Security "crisis" that is forty years in the future, while nothing whatsoever is being done to address the Peak Oil crisis which is hardly a decade in the future. Something is wrong with those priorities. Steve -- Steve Livingston nc_stereoman at charter.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From earthsteward at urisp.net Thu Mar 3 11:30:17 2005 From: earthsteward at urisp.net (Daryl Bergquist) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 09:30:17 -0600 Subject: [saymaListserv] Peak Oil Message-ID: <42272D89.7070208@urisp.net> Dear Friends, Through my work as a solar and energy efficiency consultant, I have been introduced to and found useful, the concepts of Peak Oil. In the context of unfolding world events such as the rising price of oil, I have become clear that it is time to share these concepts so that you my friends, and others, may use them to help understand our current situation. It is my hope that these understandings can aid and empower us to act constructively for our collective future. _Peak Oil is the understanding that:_ Oil (and natural gas) are limited resources. We are extracting and consuming them at an ever increasing rates. This rate is orders of magnitude greater than they being replenished. Therefore, at some point the rate at which we extract and consume them will stop increasing and begin to decline. This point is referred to as the Peak. _There are several corollaries to Peak Oil:_ The peak can only be determined in retrospect. The peak occurs when approximately half of the resource has been extracted. Through major effort and expense, the peak can be slightly postponed, and the resultant decline will be sharper and more problematic. The peak marks the end of the era of abundant cheap oil, after that oil will become increasingly more scarce and the price will continue to rise. The peak will come, extraction and consumption of oil and natural gas will decline. The questions are: When will the peak occur? What does this mean? What can we do? WHEN WILL THE PEAK OCCUR? This is the big question. The longest predicted time is a couple of decades from now. Many sources indicate that the peak is imminent or has already occurred. Some relevant information: According to the US Census Bureau and the U.S. Energy Information Administration, http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/petroleu.html#IntlConsumption , the current resident U.S. population is 4.6% of the world's population and we consume just over 25% of the world's oil consumption. This is 5.4 times our share. The U.S. has used exponentially more oil each year since 2001. China, and to a lesser extent India, are rapidly increasing their demand for oil as they industrialize. The International Energy Agency in its 2/10/05 Oil Market Report predicts that world demand for oil will exceed world supply in the first quarter of 2005. http://omrpublic.iea.org/ The Senior Vice President of Exxon Mobile recently stated that due to the 4% to 6% declining output of existing fields, meeting expected world oil demand for 2020 is nearly equivalent to replacing all of today's daily production. http://www2.exxonmobil.com/Corporate/Newsroom/NewsReleases/xom_nr_110105.asp Many financial analysts are speculating that soon supplies for oil will be inadequate for demand. They speak of declining fields, oil companies not replacing the oil they extract with new reserves, and oil exporting countries (like Indonesia, currently a member of OPEC) becoming oil importers. A Google search of "oil prices" has found such articles daily. Some countries are preparing for a transition to alternatives. Governments in Japan and several European countries are encouraging wind and photovoltaic (solar) electricity generation. Germany purchased half of the world's production of photovoltaic (solar electric) modules last year. Due to the increased demand, photovoltaic modules are increasing in price and lead time for delivery. WHAT THIS MEANS: There will be less and less oil and we will be paying more and more for it. This is significant because: The majority of the worlds energy and the feedstock for many materials comes from oil and gas. The world's finances are based on an economy that must expand to remain solvent. Over the past century, an ever increasing consumption of oil has fed this expansion. The world's supply and therefore, consumption of oil will soon be contracting. WHAT WE CAN DO: Reduce our consumption of oil and gas for the following activities: Transportation (including for food and supplies). Heating and cooling. Lighting, appliances and water heating. Agriculture and manufacturing HOW WE DO THIS: Cooperate - use the same energy for several people (like sharing rides) Energy efficiency - use less energy to accomplish the same tasks Conservation - doing less and wasting less Co-generation - use the same energy to accomplish multiple tasks Renewable energy - sun, wind, small-scale hydro, bio fuels Growing food and providing other needs locally Integrated whole systems design (including design of communities) Useful knowledge and technologies exist (and more are being developed every day). We need to apply them wisely. This means a change in how we, as a society, live. From my own experience, it can be a change for the better. Toward a world that works for all, Daryl Bergquist Earth Steward Consulting 442 Red Maple Road, Blountsville, AL 35051 (205) 429-3088 earthsteward at urisp.net Resources: The best overview article I've found on Peak Oil. Includes a description of Marion Hubbert's successful prediction in the 1950s of the peak and subsequent decline of oil extraction in the continental U.S. which occurred in the early 1970s. Discusses implications and alternatives for today and for the future. From the newsletter of California Institute of Technology http://pr.caltech.edu/periodicals/CaltechNews/articles/v38/oil.html The Oil Depletion Analysis Center provides links to many articles on Peak Oil, http://www.odac-info.org/ The Association for the Study of Peak Oil and Gas provides analysis and predictions regarding Peak Oil. They currently predict that world oil production will peak in 2006. http://www.peakoil.net/ Community Solutions promotes small local self reliant communities as a solution to Peak Oil. http://www.communitysolution.org/ "Winning the Oil Endgame" is a book from the Rocky Mountain Institute. It promotes a business solution to dwindling oil that relies on increased efficiency, lighter weight cars, biofuels, fuel cells and renewable energy. http://www.oilendgame.org/ From glenn.reinhart at earthlink.net Fri Mar 4 06:47:30 2005 From: glenn.reinhart at earthlink.net (G.L. Reinhart) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 02:47:30 -0800 Subject: [saymaListserv] Quakers in the News - 03/03/2005 Message-ID: <42283CC2.132F689@earthlink.net> Dear Friends, Please see http://quakersinthenews.blogspot.com for summaries and links to full articles. Please feel free to comment on stories on the website! Here is a summary of the news stories this week. Subject - Title - Journal - Date AFSC / Native Americans - Bangor News, ME, USA - March 1, 2005 AFSC / Violence / International Conflict - Rwanda hotel manager issues a plea - Boston Globe, MA, USA – March 3, 2005 AFSC / War - A day in their shoes ... North Texas Daily – March 2, 2005 AFSC / War - Community Buzz: March 1 Allentown Morning Call, PA, USA - Mar 1, 2005 AFSC / War - Exhibit displays boots of the fallen - San Diego Union Tribune - March 3, 2005 AFSC / War / Politics and Economics - Vermonters Vote on Study of National Guard's Role New York Times, NY, USA - Mar 1, 2005 AFSC / War / Public Revilement - Memorial or protest? Tucson Citizen - Tucson, AZ, USA .. Arts / Music / Dance - All the right moves San Diego Union Tribune, CA, USA – March 3, 2005 Arts / Music / Quaker Schools / Pendle Hill - Performer brings artistry, social awareness to Westport ... SouthCoastToday.com, MA, USA – March 2, 2005 Arts / Poetry - Studio plays host to local talent Penn Live, PA, USA – March 3, 2005 Community / Communications - Web opens new window on religion Indianapolis Star, IN, USA - Feb 27, 2005 Human Rights / Death Penalty - Spiritual Perspectives The Question of the Death Penalty Gallup Independent, NM, USA - Feb 26, 2005 Obituary / Ability-Disability- MILDRED GRACE (HARGRAVE) TAGTMEYER, 1924 - 2005 Oskaloosa Herald, IA, USA – March 3, 2005 Peace Activities / Women’s Rights - After 90 years, all WILPF is saying is ‘give peace a chance’ Santa Cruz Sentinel, CA, USA - Feb 26, 2005 Politics and Economics - Housing project may sell tax credits Allentown Morning Call, PA, USA – March 3, 2005 Politics and Economics / Amnesty International / Obituary - Peter Benenson – Obituary - Telegraph.co.uk, UK – February 27, 2005 Politics and Economics / Business - The Buddha of suburbia - San Francisco Bay Guardian, CA - Mar 1, 2005 Quaker History / Architecture / Book Review - Julian Walton to launch Quaker book in Waterford Waterford News, Ireland - Feb 25, 2005 Quaker History / Business - Federated-May deal could wipe out Strawbridge name Philadelphia Enquirer, PA, USA - Mar 1, 2005 Quaker History / Business - The death of the department store - BBC News, UK - Mar 1, 2005 Quaker History / Ethnic Diversity - A Baruch Professor Lectures on Race And Education New York Sun (subscription), NY, USA – March 3, 2005 Quaker History / Ethnic Diversity - Church gives blacks an equal voice NorthJersey.com, NJ, USA – February 28, 2005 Quaker History / Ethnic Diversity - NAACP, Media branch, hosts membership lunch The Delaware County Times, PA, USA – March 3, 2005 Quaker History / Ethnic Diversity / Business - Camden's first family of black business Camden Chronicle Independent, SC, USA – February 28, 2005 Quaker History / Quaker Influence / Human Rights / Women’s Rights - Susan B. Anthony was a teacher; women's rights and temperance advocate Quaker History / Real Estate Development - New life for old farmhouse phillyburbs.com, PA, USA - Feb 27, 2005 Quaker History / Slavery - Resident takes pride in abolitionist ancestor Lompoc Record, CA, USA - Feb 26, 2005 Quaker History / Slavery - Seeds of Destruction; The Challenge of Freedom - PBS TV, USA - Wed Feb 16 2005 at 6:00 PM Quaker History / Slavery - Stops on the road to freedom - First black nominated to national ... Syracuse Post Standard, NY - Feb 26, 2005 Quaker History / Slavery - Underground Railroad has roots in Fairfield County Lancaster Eagle Gazette, OH, USA - Feb 27, 2005 Quaker History / Slavery / Book Review - Bury the Chains: Prophets and Rebels in the Fight to Free an ... Houston Chronicle, USA - Feb 26, 2005 Quaker History / Slavery / Disownment - Speaker tells how ugly part of past yielded cultural riches Newport Daily News, RI, USA – February 28, 2005 Quaker History / Slavery / Underground Railroad - Human rights activist picks up 2 awards .. - Lansing State Journal, MI, USA - Mar 1, 2005 Quaker History / Slavery / Underground Railroad - The Christiania Riot and the slaves who ... Parkesburg Ledger, PA, USA – March 3, 2005 Quaker Process - Churches Welcome WCC Consensus Decision Making Model - ChristianToday, UK - 23 Feb 2005 Quaker Schools / Business - Movers and Shakers Prague Post, Czech Republic, E.U. – March 3, 2005 Quaker Schools / Medicine - Doctor is drawn to the most innocent Daily Press, Newport News, VA, USA - Feb 27, 2005 Quaker Schools / Politics and Economics / Arts / Film - Has he finally learned when to stop? The Herald, UK – February 28, 2005 Religious Diversity - A view of religion: Giving world flavor - San Bernardino Sun, CA, USA - Feb 27, 2005 Religious Diversity / Missions - Moderator travels to see Central America church projects Newry Democrat - Newry, Northern Ireland, UK Religious Faith / Politics and Economics - On The Conservative Bookshelf - TAEmag.com, DC – March 2, 2005 Retirement Living - Board turns away senior housing plan Maryland Northeast Booster - Towson, MD, USA – March 2, 2005 War - Guard unit receives rousing welcome after duty in Kosovo Massillon Independent, OH, USA - Mar War / Arts / Literature / Pendle Hill - The Lost Crusade Atlantic Online - Mar 1, 2005 War / Protest / Public Revilement - Lorraine Ahearn: This time, war protestors have a familiar face Greensboro News Record, NC, USA - Feb 27, 2005 War / Public Revilement / Internet Communication - The baby book of today lets everybody take a look Chicago Tribune, USA - Feb 27, 2005 War / Quaker Schools / Obituary - WAR HERO INSPIRES AIR CADETS Doncaster Today, UK – February 28, 2005 -- "Truth often suffers more by the heat of its defenders, than from the arguments of its opposers." - William Penn Glenn L. Reinhart Tel 212 255 8254 glenn.reinhart at earthlink.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From glenn.reinhart at earthlink.net Fri Mar 4 17:31:45 2005 From: glenn.reinhart at earthlink.net (G.L. Reinhart) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 13:31:45 -0800 Subject: [saymaListserv] Update - QiN Message-ID: <4228D3C1.D3BD130F@earthlink.net> A book review noted in the QiN website about the book 'Bury the Chains' by Adam Hochschild, was first reported in the London Times. The Quakers' efforts in abolishing slavery in England, in another book review of 'Bury the Chains', was also published in Mother Jones Magazine. Both links are now on the Quakers in the News website. http://quakersinthenews.blogspot.com/2005/02/quaker-history-slavery-book-review.html --------- The (sloppily transcribed) transcript of the airing of the Feb. 24 interview with Chuck Fager on the Fox News Network - The O'Reilly Factor - can now be seen on Quakers in the News. Good interview Chuck! http://quakersinthenews.blogspot.com -- "Truth often suffers more by the heat of its defenders, than from the arguments of its opposers." - William Penn Glenn L. Reinhart glenn.reinhart at earthlink.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Fiddlinshim at cs.com Fri Mar 4 14:21:55 2005 From: Fiddlinshim at cs.com (Fiddlinshim at cs.com) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 13:21:55 EST Subject: [saymaListserv] Cindy Sheehan Article Message-ID: An article by Cindy Sheehan is published in today's Lew Rockwell.com . Cindy will be speaking in Asheville, at the 3/20 Peace Rally, which will be held from 2:00 to 4:00 at City-County Plaza, on College Street, just east of Pack Square, in the heart of downtown Asheville. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhminshall at comcast.net Fri Mar 4 21:54:27 2005 From: jhminshall at comcast.net (Janet Minshall) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 20:54:27 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] Social Security or Insecurity: The Hard Truth Message-ID: Dear AFM and SAYMA Friends, I have been silent on these lists for awhile. It isn't because I have nothing to say. I have been writing articles on political economics, some of which you may see eventually. The attached is a particularly good essay I found by economist Paul Krugman appearing in The New York Review of Books dated March 10. Its long but well worth reading. The New York Review of Books is one of the treasures available relatively inexpensively in bookstores near you, and in most libraries for free. There are many loud arguments and discussions these days on Social Security. (They are almost as prevalent as arguments and discussions on "Peak Oil"). Paul Krugman does a good job of separating fact from fiction and relevant facts from irrelevant facts regarding Social Security. The issues he is addressing are, perhaps, the greatest economic issues we will face over the next fifty years or so. These issues will affect us all personally. They will affect us all politically. They will affect us spiritually as Friends. They will affect our national spirit as much as our social concerns. As always, all discussion is welcome. Janet Minshall Review America's Senior Moment By Paul Krugman George W. Bush (click for larger image) The Coming Generational Storm: What You Need to Know About America's Economic Future by Laurence J. Kotlikoff and Scott Burns MIT Press, 274 pp., $27.95; $16.95 (paper) Chart 1. Two Problems, Not One America in 2030 will be "a country whose collective population is older than that in Florida today." It will be in "desperate trouble" because the expense of caring for all those old people will cause a fiscal crisis. The nation will be plagued by "political instability, unemployment, labor strikes, high and rising crime rates." That's the picture painted in The Coming Generational Storm by Laurence Kotlikoff and Scott Burns, a book that has helped to feed a rising tide of demographic alarm. But is that picture right? Yes and no. America does have an aging population, and a responsible government would take preparatory action while the baby boomers are still in the labor force. America also has very serious long-run fiscal problems. But these issues aren't nearly as closely linked as much of the discussion would lead you to believe. The view of demography as destiny is only a half-truth, and in some ways it's as damaging as a lie. In this essay I'll try to set the record straight. Unfortunately, I can't do that by following Kotlikoff and Burns closely. Kotlikoff is a fine economist, one of the world's leading experts on long-run fiscal issues. His book with Burns is full of valuable information and sharp insights. Yet in their effort to grab the lay reader's attention, Kotlikoff and Burns do little to alert readers to the distinction between two quite different issues-an aging population and rising spending on health care. And their failure to make that distinction grossly distorts their discussion. The demographic problem is, of course, real. It is, however, of manageable size-exaggerating the problem by confounding it with the problem of medical costs just gets in the way of dealing with it. The problem posed by rising medical costs, on the other hand, would be there even if the population weren't aging-and misrepresenting the problem as one of demography gets in the way of confronting it. I'll start here by looking at the demographic problem-the aging population-which mainly concerns Social Security, then at proposals for Social Security "reform"-the scare quotes are there because the scheme currently under discussion would undermine our social insurance system, not save it. At the end I'll talk briefly about the much bigger, more intractable issue of paying for the expanding quality and quantity of health care, and the current state of political debate. 2. Social Security and the Demographic Challenge Chapter 1 of Kotlikoff and Burns's book is called "From Strollers to Walkers"-a catchy way to describe the aging of the US population. It's followed with a chapter called "Truth Is Worse Than Fiction," centered on a chart familiar to everyone who has looked at this issue: long-run projections from the Congressional Budget Office showing the combined expense of Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid rising from less than 8 percent of GDP now to more than 20 percent by 2075. It seems natural to assume that the grim cost projections follow directly from the aging of the population, and the book doesn't tell you that this assumption is wrong. One way to describe the truth is to say that there is no program called Socialsecuritymedicareandmedicaid: these are separate programs with separate problems. Look at the accompanying chart which shows the same CBO projection that Kotlikoff and Burns present, but breaks it down by program. Yes, the total rises drastically-but Social Security, although it is the biggest of the programs now and the only one of the three programs whose costs are driven mainly by demography, accounts for only a small part of that rise. That tells us that demography is not the main driver of these long-run projections. How big is the demographic challenge? Pundits who want to sound serious love to contrast Social Security as it was in 1950, when sixteen workers were paying in for every retiree drawing benefits, with Social Security as it will be once the baby boomers have retired, with only two workers per retiree. But most of the transition from sixteen to two happened a long time ago. Since the mid-1970s there have been about three workers per retiree -and Social Security has been running a surplus. The real issue is what happens when three goes to two. How big a problem is that? The answer is, medium-sized. As you can see in the chart, the aging of the population will cause Social Security spending to rise from its current level of 4.2 percent of GDP to a little over 6 percent by 2030, at which point it will stabilize. If demography were the only factor driving rising Medicare spending, it would rise in roughly the same proportion, from 2.7 to around 4 percent of GDP. So if demography were the whole story, we'd be looking at an eventual demography-driven rise in spending of between 3 and 3.5 percent of GDP by 2030, and no further increase after that. That's not a trivial increase, but it's also not overwhelming; a tax increase big enough to cover that rise in spending would still leave overall taxation in the United States well below the average for other advanced countries. Still, a responsible government would prepare for the aging of America. Textbook fiscal economics says that when a government knows that its expenses will rise in the future, it should start running a surplus now. At first, this surplus should be used to pay off debt, which reduces the government's future interest costs. If the government runs out of debt to pay off, it can start to invest in assets such as stocks and bonds, which will yield future income. That's exactly the path the Social Security system, though not the government as a whole, has been following. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Social Security has its own budget, with its own dedicated revenue base. In 1983, following the recommendations of a commission headed by Alan Greenspan, Congress tried to prepare the program to deal with the baby boomers: it raised the payroll tax, so that Social Security would run a surplus, with the express intention of building up a trust fund to help pay benefits once the baby boomers had retired. At first, it seemed that this action, together with some changes in benefits, had done the job: "For the next 75 years, the OASDI program is estimated to be in close actuarial balance," declared the Social Security trustees in their 1985 report.[1] Later, the trustees lowered their estimates; the public's impression of a looming Social Security crisis largely dates from the mid-1990s, when they were predicting exhaustion of the trust fund by 2029. But the trustees have lately become more optimistic again: they now say the trust fund will last until 2042. The Congressional Budget Office says 2052, and many economists now think that the original optimism was right after all: if the economy grows as fast over the next fifty years as it did over the past fifty years, Social Security will be sound for the foreseeable future. And if the economy doesn't grow that fast, by the way, the high rate of return on stocks needed to make privatization work can't possibly materialize, either. At this point a loud chorus on the right insists that such estimates are irrelevant, because the Social Security trust fund is just a meaningless piece of bookkeeping: it's a claim by one part of the government on another part of the government. The real crisis will come much earlier than 2042, that chorus says, because payroll tax receipts will no longer cover the full cost of providing Social Security benefits as early as 2018. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Let's take this argument a step at a time. There are two ways to look at Social Security: you can view it as a stand-alone program with its own funding, or you can view it as just part of the federal budget. These aren't mutually exclusive views. On one side, Social Security has always been run as an independent program, and the independence of its budget has considerable legal and political force. On the other side, Social Security is, of course, part of the federal government, and its benefits must ultimately be paid out of the government's revenue. Depending on the question, it's sometimes useful to focus either on Social Security's specific finances or on its role in overall budgeting. What one can't do, however, is switch views in mid-argument. If you want to discuss the budget of the Social Security system, the trust fund and the interest paid on that fund must be part of the picture. If you want to discuss Social Security's role in the overall federal budget, well, you have to talk about the federal budget as a whole; the fact that one particular tax brings in less revenue than one particular category of spending has no significance. What the crisis-mongers do, however, is switch between views to suit their convenience. For example, in his magisterial survey of Social Security issues in The New York Times Magazine of January 16, Roger Lowenstein caught Michael Tanner of the Cato Institute red-handed. Mr. Tanner's estimate of a $26 trillion deficit for Social Security turned out to be the result of a calculation based on the principle of heads I win, tails you lose: when Social Security runs a surplus, Mr. Tanner doesn't count it, because the system is just part of the government, but when Social Security runs a deficit, he treats Social Security as an independent entity. If all this seems metaphysical, let's put it this way: What will actually happen when payroll tax receipts no longer cover 100 percent of benefits? The answer, quite clearly, is nothing. There are only two ways Social Security could be unable to pay full benefits in 2018. One would be if Congress voted specifically to repudiate the Social Security trust fund, that is, not to pay interest or principal on the trust fund's bonds, which would in effect be a decision not to honor debts to retirees. In 2018 the payments on the trust fund's bonds would be sufficient to cover Social Security benefits. Repudiation of those payments is pretty much inconceivable as a political matter; writing in the periodical The Economists' Voice, David Kaiser of the National War College suggests that such a repudiation might even violate the Constitution. In that sense, the trust fund is as real an obligation of the US government as bonds held by Japanese pension funds. The other way would be if the United States found itself in a general fiscal crisis, unable to honor any of its debt. Given the size of the current deficit and the prospect that the deficit will get much bigger over time, that could happen. But it won't happen because of Social Security, which is a much smaller factor in projected deficits than either tax cuts or rising Medicare spending. The grain of truth in questions about the meaning of the trust fund is that the rest of the federal budget has not been run responsibly. The Social Security surplus should have been kept in a "lockbox." Although this term has come in for a lot of derision, it was a useful shorthand way of saying that the federal government as a whole should in an average year run budget surpluses at least equal to the surplus of the Social Security system. And this in turn was a shorthand way of saying that the federal government as a whole should do the responsible thing and try to prepay some of the costs of an aging population. In the 2000 campaign both candidates pledged to honor the lockbox. President Bush clearly never had any intention of honoring that pledge; his first tax cut would have broken the lockbox all by itself, and his insistence on pushing through another major tax cut after launching the Iraq war made it clear that this wasn't a fluke. But that's not a Social Security problem. Viewed on its own terms, Social Security has been run responsibly and is a sustainable system. And the policy implication of that observation is also clear: the problem isn't with Social Security, it's with the rest of the budget. Social Security has already taken the steps needed to cope with an aging population; at most, it needs some minor tinkering. The main thing we need to do to cope with the demographic challenge is for the rest of the federal government to do its part, by dealing with the huge deficit we already have in the general fund. 3. What About Privatization? Let's now turn to the sort-of plan ("sort-of" because the administration still hasn't provided key details) to partially privatize Social Security, diverting part of payroll taxes from their current uses, paying benefits and building up a trust fund, and placing them in private accounts instead. The administration's rationale for privatization is that it is needed because Social Security is in crisis. As we've seen, that's a huge exaggeration, and many of the things President Bush says-such as his assertions that the system will be "flat broke, bust" when the trust fund runs out-are just plain false. Also, the administration pretends that the core of our failure to prepare for an aging population resides in the finances of Social Security; again, as we've seen, Social Security has actually done a lot to prepare for the baby boomers. Mr. Bush's own actions- above all, his insistence on cutting taxes while waging war-are largely responsible for the real problem, the huge deficit in the general fund. But even if a drastic change in how Social Security operates isn't necessary, there's still the question of whether such a change is a good idea. When they aren't warning that only privatization can save us from doom, privatizers often make their case with the argument that people can do better investing their own money than the deal they get from Social Security. Here's a classic example of the genre: during the 2000 campaign, then-candidate Bush urged his listeners to "consider this simple fact: even if a worker chose only the safest investment in the world, an inflation-adjusted US government bond, he or she would receive twice the rate of return of Social Security." Vice President Cheney made a similar comparison, although he spoke about investing in stocks rather than bonds, just a few weeks ago. As I pointed out at the time Mr. Bush made his remarks: That's an amazing fact; it's even more amazing when you realize that the Social Security system invests all its money in, you guessed it, US government bonds. But the explanation-which Mr. Bush's advisers understand very well, even if [Bush himself] does not-is that today's workers are not only paying for their own retirement, but are also supporting today's retirees. Or to put it a different way, you could equally well say that my family would have more cash on hand if we took all my mother-in-law's money and let her starve. Somebody must pay the cost of caring for retirees and older workers, whose own payroll taxes went to support a previous generation. If the payroll taxes of younger workers are no longer available for that purpose because they are being placed in private accounts, some other source of money must be found. This problem is often summarized with the deceptively innocuous term "transition costs," but it's an enormous one. Kotlikoff and Burns offer a privatization plan that doesn't try to fudge the issue of transition costs. They call for a 12 percent national sales tax to pay benefits to current retirees and older workers. This tax would gradually be reduced as the beneficiaries of the current system died off, but it would remain high for a long time. That should give you an idea of what a responsible privatization scheme would entail. I'd argue that even if we had some way to pay the transition costs, it would be a mistake to privatize Social Security: it was always intended to be an insurance program, not a 401(k), and we need that insurance more than ever in the face of growing economic insecurity. In any case, however, Mr. Bush isn't about to propose a tax increase on that scale or any other. Instead, he proposes covering the costs of paying benefits to older Americans by borrowing the money. Private accounts would be created using payroll taxes that are currently used to pay for benefits; the government would therefore have to borrow to make up for lost revenue. The government would offset this loss of revenue in the long run by gradually reducing benefits relative to those under current law. These future benefit cuts supposedly wouldn't hurt workers, however, because they would be more than offset by the growth in their personal accounts. Such schemes come wrapped in fine phrases about the "ownership society," but stripped down to their essence they are equivalent to an investment adviser telling you that you won't have enough money when you retire, but that you should make up for this shortfall not by saving more but by borrowing a lot of money, investing it, and trusting in capital gains. Even if this strategy were successful, the payoff would be a long time coming. A Congressional Budget Office analysis of "plan 2" from Mr. Bush's social security commission, which is widely believed to be what Mr. Bush will eventually propose, found that it would increase the budget deficit every year until 2050. A similar analysis in last year's Economic Report of the President concluded that the debt incurred to establish private accounts, which would peak at almost 24 percent of GDP, wouldn't be paid off until 2060. It's likely that financial markets would be made very nervous by borrowing on that scale, with the prospect of repayment so far in the future. Bear in mind that the debt incurred during the four decades of increased deficits would be a real, legally binding promise to repay, while the claim that privatization would save money in the long run depends on the assumption that whoever is running America half a century from now will follow through on benefit cuts, even if private accounts have performed poorly and left many retirees in poverty. In the real world, the bond market would consider the solid fact of soaring debt a lot more significant than projections of savings through politically determined benefit cuts many decades in the future. In practice, privatization would significantly increase the risk that international investors will stop lending to the United States, provoking a fiscal crisis, sometime in the not too distant future. Even if we ignore the danger of provoking a fiscal crisis, the claim that borrowing to create private accounts will somehow benefit everyone is a remarkable exercise in free-lunch thinking. If nobody suffers any pain, where does the gain come from? If private accounts were invested in government bonds, as Mr. Bush suggested back in 2000, there would be no possible gain; the interest earned by private accounts would be completely offset by the interest paid on the government borrowing to fund these accounts. So the claim that there will be gains from privatization always comes down to this: part of the private accounts will be invested in stocks, and privatizers insist that stocks are more or less guaranteed to yield a much higher rate of return than the government bonds issued to pay for the creation of those accounts. As Michael Kinsley of the Los Angeles Times has pointed out, there's something very peculiar about that assertion: if stocks are a clearly better investment than government bonds, why would anyone out there be willing to sell all the stocks that would end up in private accounts, and buy all the bonds the government would have to issue along the way? Are politicians pushing for privatization asserting that they know more about future rates of return than investors making decisions about where to put their own money? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ In response to such questions, privatizers duck the conceptual issue, and take refuge in history: stocks have, in fact, been a much better investment than bonds in recent decades. But as the mutual fund ads say, "Past performance is no guarantee of future results." Stocks are much more expensive relative to underlying profits than they were in the past, which means that they can be expected to yield a lower return. The best bet, suggested both by a look at the numbers and by basic economic theory, is that prospective returns in the form of dividends and capital gains on stocks are somewhat higher than those on bonds, but not much higher-and that the higher expected return on stocks is offset by higher risk. That's why prudent investors hold portfolios containing both stocks and bonds, and why borrowing to buy stocks-which is, to repeat, what Bush-style privatization boils down to-is a very bad idea. Taking away the assumption that stocks will yield very high rates of return fatally undermines the arithmetic of privatization. Again, consider the analogy of borrowing and using the money to buy stocks: if those stocks end up yielding a lower rate of return than the interest rate on the loan, you've made yourself worse off. Even if your best guess is that the return on stocks will somewhat exceed the interest rate, you can't be sure of that, and you'll be in a lot of trouble if your guess proves wrong. Most privatizers assume, when selling their schemes, that stocks will yield about 7 percent a year on average after inflation, while the interest rate after inflation will be only 3 percent. If the equity premium -the spread between the average return on stocks and the average return on bonds-really were that large, borrowing to buy stocks wouldn't be a sure thing, but the odds would be strongly in favor of coming out ahead. But if the expected rate of return on stocks is only 5 percent or less, which many economists think is more reasonable, the chances that borrowing to buy stock will end up being a los-ing proposition are quite high-especially if one takes mutual fund fees into account. Privatizers hate it when you talk about fees-about the fact, for example, that the much-touted Chilean system has administrative costs about twenty times those of Social Security, or that according to Britain's Pensions Commission, "providers' charges" in that country's privatized system reduce the size of retirement nest eggs by between 20 and 30 percent. But when we're talking about the narrow equity premium produced by realistic expectations of future yields, fees become a central issue. The plan of Kotlikoff and Burns for personal accounts is useful as an example of what would be necessary to keep fees minimal: it calls for a system in which workers have no control at all over how their personal accounts are invested. Instead, all accounts would be placed in a global index fund administered by the government: "a single computer, situated in the Social Security Administration, would be programmed to buy and sell securities." In essence, the government, not individuals, would be doing the investing, and the personal accounts would simply be an accounting device. The administrative costs of running this system would be very low. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ But it's very unlikely, if Social Security is privatized, that the system will look like that. For one thing, the advertising for privatization stresses "choice." In fact, in 2002 the Cato Institute quietly renamed its Project on Social Security Privatization the Project on Social Security Choice (focus groups said that "privatization" had negative connotations). It's hard to see how to reconcile that advertising with a system in which a computer programmed by bureaucrats does all the choosing. Also, as a matter of political reality, the investment management industry isn't going to accept the idea that a huge pool of money and potential profits is off-limits. Investment companies gave lavishly to the inaugural celebrations, and are major contributors to the lobbying organizations that have been set up to push privatization. They aren't spending that money simply because they think privatization is in the public interest. Suppose that we end up with a system like that of Britain or Chile, in which mutual funds compete to attract private accounts. In that case, there's every reason to believe that fees will take a large bite. In 2003, the average "expense ratio" on US stock funds- the ratio of all the various fees charged by management to the amount invested -was 1.5 percent. In Britain, providers' charges used to take more than 2 percent off the return of the average retirement account; new regulations have reduced that, but only to about 1.1 percent. Put fees of that magnitude plus a realistic rate of return on stocks into a typical numerical model of privatization, like the one in the CBO report on plan 2, and privatization quickly turns into a sure-fire losing proposition: the government borrows to establish private accounts that if anything yield an expected rate of return lower than the rate the government pays on its bonds; yet those accounts introduce a major new element of risk. If Bush-style privatization actually goes through, the end game is fairly predictable: it's what is happening in Britain now. A couple of decades from now, it will be obvious to everyone that the returns on private accounts have fallen far short of expectations, and that America is about to experience a resurgence of poverty among the elderly. There will be irresistible demands for the government to call off cuts in benefit levels. (Remember, the over-sixty-five population will be an even larger share of the electorate than it is now.) And the result will be to make the fiscal outlook much worse than it would have been without privatization: the government will have borrowed trillions of dollars with the promise of future budget savings, but those savings will never materialize. 4. Medicare, Medicaid, and the Health Care Challenge If demography is only a medium-sized problem, why do long-run federal budget projections look so scary? The answer is that they assume that the long-term historical tendency of health care spending to rise faster than gross domestic product will continue. That trend has not reflected runaway government spending: private spending on health care has risen almost as fast as government spending. (In 1980, private health spending was 5 percent of GDP, and government health spending was 3.8 percent. By 2003 the numbers were 8.3 and 7.0, respectively.) Nor is it a case of runaway inflation: rising medical costs have not historically been driven by rising prices for existing medical procedures. There is plenty of gouging and waste in the US health care system, but there always has been, so that's not a big factor in the trend. The main reason health care is continuing to absorb a larger share of the economy is innovation: that the range of things that medicine can do keeps increasing. A good example of what drives rising health care spending is the recent decision by Medicare to pay for implanted cardiac devices in many patients with heart trouble, now that research has shown them to be highly effective. Should this be considered a cost increase? Only if we're careful about what we mean by "cost." It doesn't increase the cost of providing the same care as before; Medicare is spending more to take advantage of a new opportunity to save lives. Because rising health care spending is, for the most part, driven by increased opportunities, it's not clear that a rising share of health care spending in the economy should be considered a bad thing. Here's what the Congressional Budget Office, the source of those frightening long-term projections, had to say: Although the rise in health care costs is a serious concern for many policymakers, it largely reflects private choices.... As income rises, consumers may prefer to allocate a larger share of their resources to health care and a smaller share to other goods and services.[2] Still, there is a problem-but it is social and moral as much as economic: How much inequality in the human condition are we prepared to accept? In Charles Dickens's Britain there were huge class differences in health and longevity, because only the well-off had access to adequate nutrition and, if living in urban areas, to a more or less sanitary environment. Today those differences still exist but are much narrower, in part because of economic growth (which means that more people can afford an adequate diet), but also in large part because of public spending on sanitation, disease control, and health insurance systems that try, however, imperfectly, to provide essential care to everyone. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ But what do we do as medical advances make it possible to extend lives or greatly improve their quality, but only at a very high cost? Today we expect the public sector to pay for essential care when individuals cannot pay, and we do so for good reason. Imagine the inequalities that would already exist in America if Medicare wasn't there: high-income Americans would receive hip replacements and bypass surgery in their old age, while low-income Americans would find themselves crippled or dead. Yet the cost of preventing fundamental inequalities in medical care will grow over time. This isn't just, or even primarily, a question of whether we are prepared to raise federal taxes to pay for rising Medicare and Medicaid spending. The clear and present dangers, health econ- omists tell me, are the inability of state governments to pay their share of Medicaid, and the threat to private health insurance, which is gradually unraveling in the face of rising costs. Between 2001 and 2004, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation, the percentage of American workers receiving health insurance through their employers fell from 65 to 61, and this decline will continue unless the government starts helping out. (John Kerry's plan to have the government pay catastrophic health costs was an example of the sort of thing that may be required, but even that would have provided only limited relief.) The problem of rising medical costs is much harder to resolve than that of an aging population. In the long run, in fact, it may be impossible to resolve. But there are things we could do to postpone the day of reckoning. One would be to prepay some of those future medical costs; at the very least, we ought to be building up a Medicare trust fund to deal with the demographic component of rising costs, i.e., the increase resulting from the rising proportion of people over sixty-five. Another would be to find ways to make the US health care system more efficient. For the most part, that's a subject for another essay, but it seems worth making one point: when it comes to health care, the free-market ideology that currently dominates American political discourse seems utterly wrong. Systems that provide universal coverage, like those of France or Canada, are much cheaper to run than our market-based system, yet they yield better results with respect to life expectancy and infant mortality. Or if you don't trust foreign examples, consider the remarkable renaissance of the Veterans' Administration hospital system, described in an important article by Phillip Longman in the February Washington Monthly: he shows that the VA system's centralization of information and control over resources allow it to provide better care at lower costs than any private system.[3] In other words, whatever the current administration and congressional majority propose to deal with the health care crisis-you can be sure they'll declare a crisis as soon as they're done with Social Security- will actually move our system in the wrong direction. 5. Back to the Future Unless something very unexpected happens, Kotlikoff and Burns's vision of an America that in 2030 has an older population than Florida today will come to pass. It's also quite possible that the state of the nation will be as bad as they suggest in their opening account. But one won't be the result of the other, and in a perverse way exaggerating the demographic challenge makes that grim future more likely. Here's how the debate is really playing out, in four easy steps: 1. Talking heads and other opinion leaders perceive the issue of an aging population not as it is-a middle-sized problem that can be dealt with through ordinary changes in taxing and spending-but as an immense problem that requires changing everything. This perception is, alas, fueled by books like The Coming Generational Storm, which blur the distinction between the costs imposed by an aging population and the expense of paying for medical advances. 2. Because the demographic problem is perceived as being much bigger than it really is, the spotlight is off the gross irresponsibility of current fiscal policy. As you may have noticed, right now everyone is talking about Social Security, and nobody is talking about the stunning shift from budget surplus to budget deficit since Bush took office. 3. The focus on Social Security- the one part of the federal budget that is actually being run responsibly-is, in practice, offering the architects of our budget deficit an opportunity to do even more damage. 4. Finally, we're not having a serious national discussion about the bigger problem of paying for health care, and we probably can't in today's ideological climate. Four years ago, I and many other economists urged policymakers to think about the future cost of Social Security benefits, not because we thought there was anything wrong with Social Security itself, but because we regarded the future costs as a compelling reason not to cut taxes even if the overall budget was in surplus. Today, with the overall budget deep in deficit, and the administration considering "tax reform" that will amount to even more tax cuts for the well-to-do, it all seems a moot point. The first priority is to do something about the fiscal crisis we have right now, not worry about the fiscal crisis we might face a generation from now. -February 10, 2005 Notes [1] See www.ssa.gov/history/reports/trust/ trustyears.html, pp. 2-3. [2] See www.cbo.gov/showdoc.cfm?index= 4916&sequence=2. [3] Phillip Longman, "The Best Care Ever," Washington Monthly, February 2005. ------------------------------------------------------------------------Home · Your account · Current issue · Archives · Subscriptions · Calendar · Newsletters · Gallery · NYR Books Copyright © 1963-2005 NYREV, Inc. All rights reserved. Nothing in this publication may be reproduced without the permission of the publisher. Illustrations copyright © David Levine unless otherwise noted; unauthorized use is strictly prohibited. Please contact web at nybooks.com with any questions about this site. The cover date of the next issue of The New York Review of Books will be April 7, 2005. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kcarlyle at main.nc.us Mon Mar 7 10:54:45 2005 From: kcarlyle at main.nc.us (Kim Carlyle) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 09:54:45 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] SAF -- Call for Contributions Message-ID: <00cb01c52325$addaffe0$9e6dc0d1@yourfulkl1oh2q> It's that time again, Friends! The editors of your Friendly neighborhood (regional?) newsletter would welcome your submissions of original articles, monthly meeting news, poems, opinions, announcements, confessions, book/movie reviews, and other items of general interest to SAYMA Friends. The due date is April Fool's Day. No kidding. (We don't look like we're kidding, do we?) Thanks Friends. (And tell your Friends.) Peace on Earth, Peace with Earth, Susan & Kim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moriah at preferred.com Wed Mar 9 22:36:09 2005 From: moriah at preferred.com (Mary Calhoun) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 21:36:09 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] IMP^o^ 184 oops'!' Rep Mtg tel # correction Message-ID: <01af01c52519$f24efc80$6464a2c6@abc> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ IMP ^o^ Bulletin 184 Oops...'!' phone # correction needed..... .....in Rep Meeting registration packet ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- see invitation memo, under "Travel to Host's Home..." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ (from the Administrative Assistant) <|> Please share with your meeting or worship group. Thanks! <|> With apologies for any inconvenience -- a phone number needs correcting in the Spring Representative Meeting registration packet. <|> If not already in hand, the packets will be arriving soon. <|> The typo is on the third page, the one with the memo heading & a section about half way down that starts "Travel to Host's Home...." <|> The 423 phone number given for Millie Gimmel is incorrect. The correct number is 865-524-1021. ~~~~~~ end ^o^ ~~~~~~ 1stpost 030905 ~~~~~~ _______________________________________ IMP^o^ ... "Information Made Present" is a bulletin service of the SAYMA office to provide practical details to our geographically-challenged Yearly Meeting via our free list-server: semi-official information, bulletins that you can print, post, announce, publish, or pass around. Please address questions, corrections and additions to AdminAsst at sayma.org, 276-628-5852 (machine; in-person Tu/Th 5-7:30p), or SAYMA Admin Asst, PO Box 2191, Abingdon, VA 24212-2191. Thank you! ^o^ ----------------------------------------------------- To receive IMP^o^bulletins, subscribe to the list server, sayma at kitenet.net. You can subscribe on the web at http://kitenet.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sayma. ------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moriah at preferred.com Wed Mar 9 22:37:43 2005 From: moriah at preferred.com (Mary Calhoun) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 21:37:43 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] IMP^o^ 179 Rep Mtg ...mailbox near you! Message-ID: <029f01c5251c$c449a580$6464a2c6@abc> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ IMP ^o^ Bulletin 179 Coming to a mailbox near you! Rep Meeting registration packets for -- .............................................................. April 2, 2005, hosted by West Knoxville (TN) FM ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ <|> Registration packets have been mailed to the f/Friends listed below for the April 2nd Spring Rep Meeting in Knoxville TN. (Main session: 10:00 am Eastern) <|> Please register by March 23; you may register by mail, phone, or e-mail. The person to register with is: <|> Millie Gimmel 2600 Bridalwood Dr, Knoxville TN 37917 865-524-1021 rumbareina at yahoo.com <|> Please see IMP^o^ 180 to find out what information to supply by e-mail or phone in order to register. <|> You'll need to see a packet even if you register electronically. (It contains directions, maps, agenda, and other important information). If you aren't on the list below, please contact -- -- one of the people listed (2 people can register on one form) -- the SAYMA office AdminAsst at sayma.org 276-628-5852 or visit... -- www.sayma.org and click the link for "online documents" <|> If you could use help to arrange "green" travel (car-pooling) to Rep Mtg, please contact Bill Reynolds, cisland at aol.com. <|> If you should have been among the names below, and aren't, please let the SAYMA office know. Packets have been sent to f/Friends listed in the office as -- -- clerks/contacts for their meetings/worship groups -- SAYMA representatives from meetings & worship groups -- clerks & members of SAYMA committees -- SAYMA Clerks and Treasurer -- SAYMA's representatives to wider Quaker organizations -- SAYMA archivist & web manager, & SAF editors -- SAYF Admin Asst <|> If you're named below and don't need to be, please let the office know that too! <|> Mailed to, in meeting order... Free Polazzo ........ Anneewakee Gary Briggs ........ Asheville Barbara Esther ........ Asheville Margaret Farmer ........ Asheville Trina Farmer ........ Asheville Joy Gosset ........ Asheville Adrienne Labotka ........ Asheville Steve Livingston ........ Asheville Janice Pulliam ........ Athens Cathianne Watkins ........ Athens Susan Cozzens ........ Atlanta Chris Duke ........ Atlanta Beth Ensign ........ Atlanta Jeremiah Gold-Hopton ........ Atlanta Carol Gray ........ Atlanta Debra Johnson ........ Atlanta Karen Morris ........ Atlanta Ronald Nuse ........ Atlanta Martha Tate ........ Atlanta Perry Treadwell ........ Atlanta Ceal Wutka ........ Atlanta Mark Wutka ........ Atlanta Tom Brawner ........ Auburn Brian Boggs ........ Berea Therese Hildebrand ........ Berea Carol Lamm ........ Berea Tim Lamm ........ Berea Beth Myers ........ Berea Judy Prince ........ Birmingham Nancy Whitt ........ Birmingham Gail Fannon ........ Boone John Geary ........ Boone Melissa Meyer ........ Boone Bob French ........ Brevard Joan Williams ........ Brevard Jane Goldthwait ........ Celo Joyce Johnson ........ Celo Bob McGahey ........ Celo Colin Sugioka ........ Celo Marmon Thompson ........ Celo Rachel Weir ........ Celo Ray Lewis ........ Charleston Steve Mininger ........ Charleston Charles Schade ........ Charleston Becky Ingle ........ Chattanooga Larry Ingle ........ Chattanooga Ellen Johnson ........ Chattanooga Chuck Jones ........ Chattanooga Bill Reynolds ........ Chattanooga Peggy Bonnington ........ Clarksville Nancy Winfrey ........ Clemson Sallie Prugh ........ Columbia Harry Rogers ........ Columbia Julia Sibley-Jones ........ Columbia Alice Wald ........ Columbia Annie Black ........ Cookeville Hazel Hall ........ Cookeville Deanna Nipp ........ Cookeville Gladys Draudt ........ Crossville Dennis Gregg ........ Crossville Errol Hess ........ Foxfire Bob Keiter ........ Foxfire Edie Patrick ........ Foxfire Christopher Berg ........ Greenville Scott Henderson ........ Greenville Judy Guerry ........ Huntsville Susan Phelan ........ Huntsville David Ciscel ........ Memphis Kristi Estes ........ Memphis Larry Jordan ........ Memphis Ron McDonald ........ Memphis Robert Pugh ........ Memphis Wib Smith ........ Murfreesboro Dick Houghton ........ Nashville Jim McKeever ........ Nashville John Potter ........ Nashville Geoffrey Pratt ........ Nashville Joyce Rouse ........ Nashville Christina VanRegenmorter ........ Nashville Penelope Wright ........ Nashville Kim Carlyle ........ New Moon/Swannanoa Susan Carlyle ........ New Moon/Swannanoa Ginny Baumann ........ Oxford Nan Johnson ........ Oxford Sara Rose ........ Royal Douglas Price ........ Sevier County Lyn Hutchinson ........ Sewanee Tony Bing ........ Swannanoa Anne Welsh ........ Swannanoa Bob Welsh ........ Swannanoa Bettina Wolff ........ Swannanoa Sharon Annis ........ West Knoxville Millie Gimmel ........ West Knoxville Jim Hamill ........ West Knoxville Kendall Ivie ........ West Knoxville Missy Ivie ........ West Knoxville Ernest Lee ........ West Knoxville Hannah MacDermott ........ West Knoxville Turtle MacDermott ........ West Knoxville Kathleen Mavournin ........ West Knoxville Carol Nickle ........ West Knoxville Sharon Phelps ........ West Knoxville Lee Ann Swarm ........ West Knoxville ~~~~ end ^o^ ~~~~ postdate 030905 ~~~~ _____________________________ IMP ^o^ ... "Information Made Present" is a bulletin service of the SAYMA office to provide practical details to our geographically-challenged Yearly Meeting via our list-server: semi-official information, bulletins that you can print, post, announce, publish, or pass around. Please address questions, corrections, and additions to AdminAsst at sayma.org, or 276-628-5852 (machine; in-person Tu/Th 5-7:30p). Thank you! ^o^ ----------------------------------------------------- To receive IMP^o^ bulletins, subscribe to the list-server sayma at kitenet.net. You can subscribe on the web at http://kitenet.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sayma. ------------------------------------------------------ From moriah at preferred.com Wed Mar 9 23:27:00 2005 From: moriah at preferred.com (Mary Calhoun) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 22:27:00 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] IMP^o^ 180 Rep Meeting "e-registration" Message-ID: <03aa01c52521$112ae720$6464a2c6@abc> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ IMP ^o^ Bulletin 180 Information needed to register electronically for Spring Rep Meeting ... .......................................................... but you still need to see a registration packet! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ <|> You can register by phone or e-mail for the Spring Rep Meeting scheduled for April 2nd in Knoxville TN. (Main session: 10:00 am Eastern time) <|> Please register by March 23rd. Everyone needs to be registered in advance, to help the lunch-planners. The person to register with is: <|> Millie Gimmel -- 865-524-1021, rumbareina at yahoo.com <|> You will need to see a registration packet even if you register by e-mail or phone; it contains maps, directions, agenda, and other important information. <|> If you don't have a packet, please -- -- check IMP^o^ 179, to see if one was mailed to you, or ... -- contact a person who was listed in IMP 179, or ... -- contact your meeting clerk, or ... -- visit www.sayma.org to download and print the materials, or ... -- contact the SAYMA office at 276-628-5852, AdminAsst at sayma.org <|> Meanwhile, IMP^o^ bulletins 178 and 179 will give you partial information. <|> Info needed for Rep Meeting registration: 1. If you need childcare please notify Millie Gimmel, 865-524-1021, rumbareina at yahoo.com right away. Childcare is very limited. 2. First & last names, and address. New: Please also indicate male (M) or female (F) to help the hospitality person arrange hosts. 3. Purpose for attending: (a) Rep Meeting, M&N, Yearly Mtg Planning, other (b) child; please give name(s), age(s) & special needs of child(ren) requiring care. 4. Meeting or Worship Group name 5. Your contact info: area code + phone number (& e-mail address if you have one). If giving both, please indicate the preferred means of communication 6. Hospitality needed (place to sleep & light breakfast provided by local f/Friend): (a) Please indicate people who can share a room... (b) ...& those who can share a bed. (c) Friday night for (#) ____ people. Expected time of arrival: ______ (d) Saturday night for (#) ____ people. Expected time of arrival: ____ (e) Please say who is arriving when, if the folks above are not all traveling together. (f) Any special needs? (Vegetarian, vegan, special diet, house without stairs, hills, wood smoke, pets, or a child-proof house, etc. ...?) 7. If you ask for hospitality, and your request hasn't been acknowledged by March 29, you can contact Millie Gimmel, 865-524-1021, rumbareina at yahoo.com if you want reassurance. 8. Cancellation: after registering, if you are unable to attend for any reason, please notify Millie Gimmel as soon as possible at 865-524-1021, rumbareina at yahoo.com ~~~~~~ end ^o^ ~~~~~~ postdate 030905 ~~~~~~ ________________________________ IMP ^o^ ... "Information Made Present" is a bulletin service of the SAYMA office to provide practical details to our geographically-challenged Yearly Meeting via our free list-server: semi-official information, bulletins that you can print, post, announce, publish, or pass around. Please address questions, corrections and additions to AdminAsst at sayma.org, or 276-628-5852 (machine; in-person Tu/Th 5-7:30p). Thank you! ^o^ ----------------------------------------------------- To receive IMP^o^ bulletins, subscribe to the free list server, sayma at kitenet.net. You can subscribe on the web at http://kitenet.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sayma. ------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moriah at preferred.com Wed Mar 9 23:46:09 2005 From: moriah at preferred.com (Mary Calhoun) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 22:46:09 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] IMP^o^ 181 "green" travel to Rep Mtg Message-ID: <048a01c52523$b9ee1c40$6464a2c6@abc> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ IMP ^o^ Bulletin 181 For help with Earth-Friendly Travel to... ...Spring Rep Meeting in Knoxville ----------------------------------------------- contact Bill Reynolds ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ (a standing offer from Bill, Chattanooga FM, member of SAYMA Ecological Concerns Network ) <|> For f/Friends who don't already have a ride-share organized, and could use a hand finding one, Bill Reynolds has volunteered to help organize car-pooling to the April 2 Rep Meeting in Knoxville. <|> If you're looking for riders, please let him know -- a) how many spaces are available in the vehicle b) where it will be leaving from c) when it will be departing d) general route planned e) when it will arrive at Rep Meeting f) when it will be returning <|> If you're seeking to 'hitch a ride,' please let him know - a) how many you are b) where you will be leaving from c) when you need to depart d) where you could meet a ride e) when you need to arrive at Rep Meeting f) when you need to return home <|> Bill Reynolds' contact info - cisland at aol.com, 423-624-6821 3529 Dell Trail, Chattanooga TN 3741 ~~~~~~ end ^o^ ~~~~~~ 1stpost 030905 ~~~~~~ _______________________________________ IMP ^o^ ... "Information Made Present" is a bulletin service of the SAYMA office to provide practical details to our geographically-challenged Yearly Meeting via our free list-server: semi-official information, bulletins that you can print, post, announce, publish, or pass around. Please address questions, corrections and additions to AdminAsst at sayma.org, 276-628-5852 (machine), or SAYMA Admin. Asst., PO Box 2191, Abingdon, VA 24212-2191. Thank you! ^o^ ----------------------------------------------------- To receive IMP^o^ bulletins, subscribe to the free list server, sayma at kitenet.net. You can subscribe on the web at http://kitenet.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sayma. ------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From timinathens at yahoo.com Thu Mar 10 19:41:09 2005 From: timinathens at yahoo.com (Tim Johnson) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 15:41:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [saymaListserv] Athens teens initiate wonderful project -- please support Message-ID: <20050310234109.5042.qmail@web40513.mail.yahoo.com> Dear friends, I'm so lucky in my job to see wonderful people doing wonderful things every day. Even in that context, I'm blown away by a group of four Athens high school students, three UGA students, and a driver who are helping their 15-year-old friend Darius (who has muscular distrophy) by taking him on his dream trip (via rented, wheelchair-accessible r.v.) across the country this summer. With Darius's encouragement, that have also decided to do a film about their trip, to help raise awareness about MD, to help raise awareness about accessible travel, and "to contribute to the lasting memory of our beloved friend Darius by helping him live his dream--and end his life--with grace and excitement." They've just posted some information on a web site -- dariusgoeswest.com -- and I encourage you to visit it regularly. I also hope that you can donate to support their worthwhile efforts. You can donate directly to them (instructions on the web site), or if you wish a tax deduction, you can donate to their project with a designated contribution (write 'Darius Goes West' in the 'for' line) to ACC Family Connection, PO Box 1904, Athens, GA 30603. Please invite others to do so as well. Thanks!!! --Tim Johnson, executive director, Athens-Clarke County Family Connection/Communities In Schools of Athens Love & truth, agape & satyagraha, Tim Tim Johnson, e-mail: timinathens at yahoo.com "Love is a verb." -- Stephen Covey -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GlennReinhart at aol.com Fri Mar 11 00:16:14 2005 From: GlennReinhart at aol.com (GlennReinhart at aol.com) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 23:16:14 EST Subject: [saymaListserv] Quakers in the News - 3/11/2005 Message-ID: <19c.2edfba70.2f62758e@aol.com> Dear Friend, Welcome to Quakers in the News. Please click the blue underlined links to see stories. Glenn ---- The most widely covered story of the week did not mention Quaker, however it did mention AFSC, and was featured in the 'National' Section of USA Today, 3/7/2005: AFSC / War / Politics and Economics' Counter-recruiters' shadowing the military USA Today - Mar 7, 2005 ---- The most inspiring Quaker story to me this week (also very widely read) was: Religious Faith / Community `Angel' to fly off after earning wings at Cabrini Chicago Tribune, USA- Mar 8, 2005 ---- For an abstract of each story and links to the full text stories, or to make comments on any story for others to share, please see http://quakersinthenews.blogspot.com Please see below for a quick survey of this week's news topics and details which name or relate to Quakerism. ACLU / Church and State ACLU files suit over land lease to Mormon church Billings Gazette, MT, USA ,AZ Central.com, AZ USA ? March 9, 2005 AFSC / Conscientious Objecton / Israel Some Israeli youths refuse to enlist Washington Square News, NY, USA - Mar 7, 2005 AFSC / Immigration - Immigration crackdown nets laborers NorthJersey.com, NJ, USA - Mar 6, 2005 AFSC / International Conflict / Israel-Palestine Israel-Palestine Conflict Is Called A ?Human Rights Challenge To ... TheDay, CT, USA ? March 6, 2005 AFSC / War Peace church youth to war Lancaster Newspapers, PA, USA ? March 7, 2005 AFSC / War / Concientious Objection / Boston-MA Harper's Magazine, February 23, 2005 AFSC / War / Politics and Economics' Counter-recruiters' shadowing the military USA Today - Mar 7, 2005 AFSC / War Touring Anti-War Exhibit Limited By Permit San Diego Union Tribune USA ? March 9, 2005 AFSC / War/ Tucson-AZ Touring exhibit honors military casualties Arizona Daily Wildcat, AZ, USA - Mar 4, 2005 Andean Quaker Service Committee / Women / War / Colombia LATIN AMERICA: Civil Society Has Role to Play in Conflict ... Inter Press Service, World - Mar 4, 2005 Arts / Film Actress mixes porn and prayers Stuff.co.nz, New Zealand ? March 9, 2005 Arts / Music / Business MPO musicians pull a few strings to find time for practice ... Marion Chronicle Tribune, IN - Mar 5, 2005 Christian Peacemaker Terms / War Bringing Peace to War-Torn City Burke Connection, VA - Mar 3, 2005 Community / Quaker History / Trueblood The Most Consequential Body in the World - Agape Press / Christian News Service, MS, USA - Mar 3, 2005 Death Penalty / Albuquerque-NM STATE SPIRITUAL LEADERS URGE NM TO REPEAL DEATH PENALTYAlbuquerque Journal, NM, USA - Mar 3, 2005 Ecology / Palm Beach-FL Bulletin Board for Palm Beach County Sun-Sentinel.com, FL, USA - Mar 8, 2005 FCNL / International Conflict / Sudan Super Storytellers The Shorthorn, TX, USA - March 9, 2005 Humanitarian Assistance / Health / Community So long, Doc SouthCoastToday.com, MA, USA ? March 8, 2005 Humanitarian Assistance / Health Friends hosting blood drive Mooresville / Decatur Times, IN, USA- Mar 5, 2005 Humanitarian Assistance / Homelessness -VA Taking care of her 'guys' Daily Press, VA, USA - Mar 3, 2005 Outreach / Arts / Dance Moto-X coming to Coolman Gym Wabash Plain Dealer, IN, USA - Mar 5, 2005 Politics and Economics / Child Care Friends Meeting House to become childcare centre Waterford News, Ireland, E.U. - Mar 4, 2005 Politics and Economics / Religious Faith / Opinion Democrats must reclaim moral ground Atlanta Journal Constitution, GA, USA - Mar 8, 2005 Quaker History / Religous Faith Program on power of prayer given on World Day of Prayer Fort Morgan Times, CO, USA - Mar 8, 2005 Quaker Influence / Religious Faith The First Jesus Freak Orange County Weekly, CA, USA - Mar 3, 2005 Religious Faith / Community `Angel' to fly off after earning wings at Cabrini Chicago Tribune, USA- Mar 8, 2005 War / Draft Forum to discuss chances that US will revive the draft Chicago Tribune, USA- Mar 4, 2005 ----------- An inspiring story not mentioning Quakers per se, but in the spirit of Quakerism is: Class Requirement: Crossing Lines on the Middle East New York Times, NY, USA - March 8, 2005 CITYWIDE Class Requirement: Crossing Lines on the Middle East By DAVID GONZALEZ Decades before the rest of the world followed suit, the United Nations briefly lived in Queens. The Secretariat building may now tower over Manhattan, but the borough across the East River has arguably done a better job of bringing together people born under every flag on earth - including a few banners once carried by warring armies. Being the city's most diverse borough could be intimidating, given the potential for ethnic conflict over slights real or imagined. But one glance at any subway car shows people are too busy going to school or work (or both) to get caught up in any nonsense that would set them back. Better yet, take a look at Queens College, where Prof. Mark Rosenblum sees duty amid diversity. On a campus where increasing numbers of Muslim students study alongside Jews, he has been able to foster a civil dialogue over one of the era's most divisive issues, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Avoiding the strident debate on other campuses, most recently Columbia University, he has gotten students on opposite sides of the issue to make their best case - for the other side..... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From freepolazzo at comcast.net Mon Mar 14 09:56:55 2005 From: freepolazzo at comcast.net (free polazzo) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 08:56:55 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] High School Students in Israel refuse to serve in Armed forces! Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050314085110.0317bee0@mail.comcast.net> Dear Friends, Good news in an Isreali newspaper today. Hundreds of Isreali high school students have signed a public letter stating their intention to refuse to serve as oppressors of Palestinians in the Isreali Defense Force (IDF). As always, young people are a large part of the answer to many of our peace concerns. I am so happy to see this report and wanted to share it with our community. Does anyone know of such efforts in any of SAYMA's High Schools? Blessings, Free >The URL is http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasen/spages/551869.html > > > www.haaretz.co.il > Haaretz English > www.haaretz.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nwinfrey at bellsouth.net Mon Mar 14 14:00:40 2005 From: nwinfrey at bellsouth.net (Nancy Winfrey) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 13:00:40 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Subject: Fw: Re: [saymaListserv] High School Students in Israel refuse to serve inArmed forces! Message-ID: <4235D148.000004.03692@NANCY> -------Original Message------- From: Nancy Winfrey Date: 03/14/05 10:13:17 To: free polazzo Subject: Re: [saymaListserv] High School Students in Israel refuse to serve inArmed forces! Not only have I not heard of anyone here in high school supporting a peace effort, but Clemson U, where my son-in-law teaches, has had a recent incident which is disgusting area 'liberals'. The young on-campus Republicans (they have a club!) put out news that a peace rally would be held on Bowman Field (the main campus entrance) last week. They invited local newspapers to the "rally", which was attended by several anti-war demonstrators in good faith. Then the students who issued the invitation proceeded to counter-march with extremely derogatory anti-liberal signs and signs supported the Bush war and Republican party. The apparent head of the club showed up in disguise and proceeded to give an inflammatory speech against the peace marchers. The Anderson Mail wrote a piece censuring this behavior, and several friends have blogged that they are sending the president of the U. protesting letters. Yes, discrimination is alive and well here, too. I can only hope and pray that this period in our country will correct itself soon. Nancy Winfrey Greenville, SC MM Clemson SC WG -------Original Message------- From: free polazzo Date: 03/14/05 09:02:15 To: sayma at kitenet.net; Atlanta Friends Meeting Subject: [saymaListserv] High School Students in Israel refuse to serve inArmed forces! Dear Friends, Good news in an Isreali newspaper today. Hundreds of Isreali high school students have signed a public letter stating their intention to refuse to serve as oppressors of Palestinians in the Isreali Defense Force (IDF). As always, young people are a large part of the answer to many of our peace concerns. I am so happy to see this report and wanted to share it with our community. Does anyone know of such efforts in any of SAYMA's High Schools? Blessings, Free The URL is http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasen/spages/551869.html www.haaretz.co.il Haaretz English www.haaretz.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: BackGrnd1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1431 bytes Desc: not available URL: From moriah at preferred.com Mon Mar 14 12:36:05 2005 From: moriah at preferred.com (Mary Calhoun) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:36:05 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] IMP^o^ 185 threshing at YM... Message-ID: <030d01c528d3$d13a5a40$6464a2c6@abc> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ IMP ^o^ Bulletin 185 Threshing session at Yearly Meeting -- "Consider YM name change?" ---------------------------------------------- ...listening & sharing in June.... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ (An announcement from Kristi Estes, SAYMA clerk, also mailed to all meeting & worship group clerks and contacts) <|> Do we want to consider changing the name of the Yearly Meeting? <|> A threshing meeting will be scheduled to consider this question at our yearly meeting sessions at Warren Wilson College in June. Because this question bears a level of consideration and time that may not be available at our regular Meetings for Business we will use the threshing session as a way of listening and sharing. <|> What is a threshing meeting? When dealing with issues that may be difficult, controversial, or complex, a Threshing Meeting allows an airing of differences and sharing of information that may be useful for later decision making. No decision is expected and unity does not have to be achieved at a threshing session. Instead the outcomes are reported back to the Meeting for Business. <|> Guidelines for a threshing include: 1) speak from personal experience 2) do not reply to or rebut others 3) all ideas and thoughts on an issue are welcome 4) everyone should have a chance to speak 5) Friends have a responsibility to make dissenting views known 6) passion is permitted <|> The usefulness of a threshing meeting is dependent on the participation of Friends with varying views being willing to hear and share with each other. <|> Background of the proposal to change the name of Southern Appalachian Yearly Meeting and Association <|> In 2003, while reviewing the Yearly Meeting section of the Guide to Our Faith and Our Practice, the revision committee considered dropping the word "Association" from our name. Having individual members, from remote areas, "associating" with the Yearly Meeting -- independent of a monthly meeting -- is not current practice. This was followed by the awareness that we were a growing Yearly Meeting no longer defined by the "Appalachian" designation that was a part of our early formation. With prayerful consideration the committee recommended changing the name to "Southern Yearly Meeting." The proposal was sent out and considered by Monthly Meetings. The responses to this recommendation were varied and a summary is included below. No unity was reached at Yearly Meeting business sessions. At this time we will not consider WHAT the name might be changed to, but only IF the change should be considered at all. <|> 16 monthly meetings responded to the name change proposal 7 responded yes to changing the name but 3 of these suggested different names 4 were not sure/no unity 1 responded no 4 had no comment <|> Comments from meetings and individuals include: (some of which were summarized and combined) -- Change is inevitable. -- I like SAYMA. -- The change means we take on a sense of ownership of a certain territory and we may grow into this territory. -- I don't think we need a change. -- Such a large designation suggests our geographic area, one that with current growth may include an unreasonably large number of Friends. This may cause us to be severely geographically challenged. We should consider splitting into 2 yearly meetings/quarterly meetings first. -- We are in unity with the name change, but prefer Southern Appalachian Yearly Meeting, or a name reflecting our geology. -- We have no strong feelings regarding the name change. -- We approved changing the name. -- Our meeting strongly opposes changing the name. -- We had no objection to a name change. SYM is a more accurate representation. -- We approve the changing of the name..we are not in agreement with the suggestion of Southern Yearly Meeting.. -- The name change is fine with us. <|> Please join us in June to consider this question, but most importantly to meet for fellowship, worship, and working together as a Yearly Meeting! <|> In peace, Kristi Estes, clerk ~~~~~~ end ^o^ ~~~~~~ 1stpost 031305 ~~~~~~ _______________________________________ IMP ^o^ ... "Information Made Present" is a bulletin service of the SAYMA office to provide practical details to our geographically-challenged Yearly Meeting via our list-server: semi-official information, bulletins that you can print, post, announce, publish, or pass around. Please address questions, corrections and additions to AdminAsst at sayma.org, 276-628-5852 (machine; in-person Tu/Th 5-7:30p), or SAYMA Admin Asst, PO Box 2191, Abingdon, VA 24212-2191. Thank you! ^o^ ----------------------------------------------------- To receive IMP^o^ bulletins, subscribe to the list server, sayma at kitenet.net. You can subscribe on the web at http://kitenet.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sayma. ------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From errol at kitenet.net Fri Mar 18 13:43:05 2005 From: errol at kitenet.net (Errol Hess) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 12:43:05 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] Yearly Meeting Registration Materials Available Message-ID: <20050318124305.5c166407.errol@kitenet.net> Dear Friends, I ask you, as involved members of SAYMA, to help "get out the vote" for a vital yearly meeting. Copies of the SAYMA Advance Program were mailed today to all meetings and worship groups. The program and registration forms will soon be posted at www.sayma.org. Please encourage Friends and attenders in your acquaintance who have never gone to yearly meeting to attend this year. It is important for the unity of Quakerism to get folks out to yearly meeting, where "cross pollenization" can happen. Remind Friends to mail in registrations early. To avoid a penalty, registration forms must be postmarked by May 10. It is easy to let deadlines slip by, so do it now before it is forgotten. A bonus: early registrants will get first choice of workshops. I hope to see you at SAYMA June 9--12. Errol Hess Yearly Meeting Planning Committee Clerk From wwholland at mindspring.com Mon Mar 21 08:38:44 2005 From: wwholland at mindspring.com (William Wyatt Holland) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 12:38:44 +0000 Subject: [saymaListserv] Announcement: Agreements Workshop at Atlanta Meeting, April 30 In-Reply-To: <20050318124305.5c166407.errol@kitenet.net> Message-ID: Dear Friends, Please help us spread the word about the workshop listed below. Thanks for your help. in peace, Mary Ann Downey and Bill Holland Workshop: Facilitating Sustainable Agreements, April 30 On Saturday, April 30 from 9:30-3:30, Mary Ann Downey and Bill Holland will lead a workshop on facilitating group decision making. Facilitators can help groups in any setting work toward inclusively, diversity and unity, while staying focused on the issue at hand and on learning from each other. We will demonstrate and practice skills in handling conflict, dissent, and integrating differences for sustainable agreements. The cost of the workshop is $50 and includes the book, Facilitator's Guide to Participatory Decision-Making, lunch and handouts. Call 404-892-2358 or email madowney at mindspring.com to register. From moriah at preferred.com Mon Mar 21 12:40:01 2005 From: moriah at preferred.com (Mary Calhoun) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 11:40:01 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] viaYMaa>> white allies...black reparations... Message-ID: <03af01c52e6e$5e63b480$6464a2c6@abc> Received from Susan Cozzens, Atlanta Friends Meeting, for posting on the SAYMA listserv. For more information phone Jerry at 206/723-3660, or e-mail Kathryn at kgordon at pa.net ^o^ \_/ Mary AdminAsst at sayma.org 276-628-5852 POB 2191, Abingdon VA 24212-2191 ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan Cozzens Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 9:32 AM WHITE ALLIES TO THE BLACK REPARATIONS MOVEMENT 2nd National Conference June 24-26 - Atlanta, Georgia Are you a white ally of the black-led movement for slavery reparations? Then join C.U.R.E.* in Atlanta, Georgia, as we 1) learn more about reparations, 2) examine how to be effective advocates, 3) take an honest look at ourselves as allies in the Black Reparations Movement, and 4) undertake to strengthen and improve upon our efforts. We will address these and other questions in panels and in dialogue during the two-day conference. a.. What was the role of race, class and religion in slavery and its aftermath, and how do we look at reparations through this lens today? b.. What approaches work best when engaging other white people in conversations about reparations? c.. In the past, what have white allies done right and what have we done wrong when supporting black movements? d.. With the past in mind, how can we best support today's movement for justice through reparations? e.. As it grows, how can C.U.R.E. organize itself so as to positively influence white America and help make reparations a reality. Highlights of the conference will be visits from Black Reparations leaders who are in Atlanta to attend the annual N'COBRA conference. We also anticipate media activities surrounding the launch of CURE's new book entitled "The Debtors: Whites Respond to the Call for Black Repartions." The conference will arrange outings in Atlanta, such as a trip to the Martin Luther King, Jr. Center, for those who are interested. Registration fee: $20-$40 (sliding scale). Includes lunch Friday and Saturday and a copy of CURE's new book, "The Debtors: Whites Respond to the Call for Black Reparations." Limited free and low-cost housing available. Please register for that by May 1st. Watch for detailed program and other information to be posted at the CURE website: www.ReparationsTheCURE.org. For more information phone Jerry at 206/723-3660 or e-mail Kathryn at kgordon at pa.net *Caucasians United for Reparations and Emancipation. Name________________________________________________________________________ Mailing Address________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________________ E-mail address_________________________________________________________________ Registration fee enclosed $________ Donation enclosed $________ _______ If you are interested in a free or very low-cost place to stay with friends of C.U.R.E in Atlanta, please check here and also e-mail us at kgordon at pa.net Please let us know about any dietary restrictions you have. Use back if needed. Make checks payable to CURE. Mail to: Larry Yates 79 Indian Camp Trail Maurertown VA 22644 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moriah at preferred.com Mon Mar 21 19:30:41 2005 From: moriah at preferred.com (Mary Calhoun) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 18:30:41 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] IMP ^o^30 - what an IMP ^o^ does & is Message-ID: <03b101c52e6e$5fcbd000$6464a2c6@abc> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ IMP^o^ Bulletin 30, updated "Dear f/Friends -- revisited: what an IMP^o^ bulletin . . . ----------------------------------------------------- . . . does and is" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ (Administrative Assistant's note: an updated edition for f/Friends who haven't seen it before) <|> IMP^o^ bulletins have been in use for quite a while now... <|> ...but not everyone is familiar with what they are and do. <|> There's a difference between sayma at kitenet.net (an e-mail list-server, sort of a post office) and the IMP^o^ bulletins (which "ride" on the list-server, carried by our "postal worker"). <|> Anyone can subscribe to, and then post messages on, sayma at kitenet.net. <|> IMP^o^ bulletins come from the SAYMA office, and are posted to sayma at kitenet.net. <|> Anyone who subscribes to sayma at kitenet.net gets messages from individuals as well as IMP^o^ bulletins. <|> The following describes what an IMP^o^ is intended to be and do. <|> IMP^o^ = "Information Made Present" a.. IMP^o^'s main goal is to make information available to meetings and worship groups, SAYMA appointees, and SAYMA f/Friends generally b.. bulletins are about information, not primarily to raise issues c.. messages about issues report them as business or activities in meetings or in SAYMA <|> "a bulletin service" a.. bulletins are user-friendly and brief b.. bulletins seek to support -- in tone, content, and timing -- busy f/Friends, meetings with limited resources, and sometimes-stretched SAYMA appointees c.. bulletins are meant to serve the on-going interests of SAYMA f/Friends, the YM, and its meetings and worship groups d.. bulletins seek to build faith in their own reliability as a service <|> "to provide practical details" a.. bulletins are a way to provide convenient reminders b.. bulletins seek to give details otherwise unavailable or likely to be overlooked c.. bulletins seek to provide information of near-term consequence <|> "bulletins that you can print, post, announce, publish, or pass around" a.. bulletins, in tone and form, seek to encourage f/Friends to use them in local communications and business process b.. the IMP^o^ logo -- visible in e-mail inboxes -- allows infrequent readers of sayma at kitenet.net to selectively read and forward information <|> "via our list-server" a.. the IMP^o^ service recognizes that e-mail is used by many, but not all b.. IMP^o^ messages will be Friendly to the f/Friends who volunteer to pass them along c.. each bulletin informs readers how to subscribe to sayma at kitenet.net d.. bulletins encourage unsubscribed f/Friends to attempt access to sayma at kitenet.net e.. bulletins seek to make good use of an available electronic resource f.. bulletins speak appropriately in a media for which the ultimate audience is unlimited and unknowable <|> "semi-official information" a.. bulletins will build confidence that they reflect the business proceedings of SAYMA and its meetings b.. bulletins are transparent about their sources c.. a bulletin releases only information intended, by its source, for general publication within SAYMA d.. a bulletin, whenever possible, is written by the person needing to distribute information e.. bulletins recognize Friendly inclusiveness, that no one source has all the truth f.. bulletins seek to be accurate, adequate, and mindful of consequences g.. bulletins seek to clarify and support Quaker process within SAYMA <|> "our geographically-challenged Yearly Meeting" a.. bulletins try to make up for some of the effects of distance in SAYMA b.. IMP^o^ seeks, through information, to link us better as a community c.. bulletins seek to provide information that enables SAYMA f/Friends to work together d.. IMP^o^ bulletins supplement the Southern Appalachian Friend newsletter <|> "of the SAYMA office" a.. IMP^o^ bulletins are prepared and published by the SAYMA Administrative Assistant b.. the IMP^o^ logo signifies its role as a recognized source of information c.. the content of bulletins is not proprietary, and may be freely quoted d.. bulletins are not necessarily the only source of information on a topic ~~~~~~ end ^o^ ~~~~~~ updated 032105 ~~~~~~ _______________________________________ IMP ^o^ ... "Information Made Present" is a bulletin service of the SAYMA office to provide practical details to our geographically-challenged Yearly Meeting via our list-server: semi-official information, bulletins that you can print, post, announce, publish, or pass around. Please address questions, corrections and additions to AdminAsst at sayma.org, 276-628-5852 (machine; in-person Tu/Th 5-7:30p), or SAYMA Administrative Assistant, PO Box 2191, Abingdon, VA 24212-2191. Thank you! ^o^ ----------------------------------------------------- To receive IMP^o^ bulletins, subscribe to the list server, sayma at kitenet.net. You can subscribe on the web at http://kitenet.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sayma. ------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Mmarjean at aol.com Tue Mar 22 10:07:47 2005 From: Mmarjean at aol.com (Mmarjean at aol.com) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 09:07:47 EST Subject: [saymaListserv] Fwd: [Memphis Quaker - Old List] Gay at the Gathering Message-ID: <1a7.341f2141.2f7180b3@aol.com> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Quakerkristi at aol.com Subject: [Memphis Quaker - Old List] Gay at the Gathering Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 08:59:45 EST Size: 7449 URL: From freepolazzo at comcast.net Wed Mar 23 11:28:58 2005 From: freepolazzo at comcast.net (free polazzo) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 10:28:58 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] No life support for you, in Texas! Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050323100354.03132b50@mail.comcast.net> Hi, The decision of whether to remove "life support" is a difficult one, even for those who are told by their loved ones that this is what they want. The advantage of the controversy surrounding the Florida case of Terri Schiavo is that it can highlight inconsistencies in behavior by elected officials that can call their intentions into question on may issues. My experience shows that actions outweigh talk. How can our "pro life" President and Republican Congress, support "War as The Answer" no matter what the cost in lives of soldiers or civilians (who are still not even being counted.), yet pass legislation to keep alive one person? I am not even dealing with the issue of "is she alive or dead". The question is the focus of our political leaders on this concern. And, as the following article points out, why are poor people in Texas not being given the same concern as the person in Florida? This query can shed more light on the unequal treatment poor people get in our country. The following article, published in Alternet.com, presents news about the issue of life support in a context that I haven't seen in the mainstream media. Blessings, Free Polazzo PS: As a culture, we could see the lack of food and shelter and medical care from people anywhere as "removing life support". Our boycott of Cuba, seen in this light, is unconscionable. Yet our policy of isolating and cutting off Cuba from the rest of the world is supported by the same politicians who intervened in the Terri Schivao case. By Brian Montopoli, CJR Daily. Posted March 23, 2005. The media coverage of the Schiavo case doesn't include one important detail: a Texas law that authorizes health care providers to remove their patients from life support. Guess who signed it into law? For honest reporters, the Terri Schiavo case is something of a nightmare. Not so for ratings-obsessed cable news directors, of course, who must be delighted with the timing: they can now shift from the lives and deaths of Scott and Laci Peterson to the life and death of Terri Schiavo without missing a beat. Real reporters and editors, by contrast, have to decide how much, or even whether, to anchor their reports in a larger context – a tricky decision when reporting about an issue that inflames cultural and political passions. And they know that media bias warriors are scrutinizing every sentence, ready to attack at the first sign of reporting that doesn't square with their world view. Example: Most everyone in Washington (and, for that matter, elsewhere) believes that grandstanding politicians are using the issue for political gain. But should that information be included in every story, or should news consumers be allowed to come to their own conclusions? One option is to simply put forth incontrovertible facts – say, by including in each story quoting a Republican lawmaker, the fact that a one-page GOP memo leaked last week called the Schiavo case "a great political issue" that would appeal to the party's base and potentially result in the defeat of Democratic Sen. Bill Nelson of Florida. That's not to say that there are not genuine values at stake for congressional Republicans, many of whom truly believe that removing Schiavo's feeding tube would be a moral wrong. If their actions are cynical, they aren't completely so, and reporters would be doing a disservice by suggesting as much – just as they would be by ignoring the memo all together. There is one bit of context, however, that seems particularly salient, and it involves a six-month old boy named Sun Hudson. On Thursday, Hudson died after a Texas hospital removed his feeding tube, despite his mother's pleas. He had a fatal congenital disease, but would have been kept alive had his mother been able to pay for his medical costs, or had she found another institution willing to take him. In a related Texas case, Spiro Nikolouzos, who is unable to speak and must be fed through a tube because of a shunt in his brain – but who his wife says can recognize family members and show emotion – may soon be removed from life support because health care providers believe his case is futile. The Hudson and Nikolous cases fall under the Texas Futile Care Law, which was signed into law by then-governor George W. Bush. Bush, however, flew from Texas to Washington early this week to sign legislation authorizing federal courts to review Schiavo's case. The president felt that the Florida courts, which had reviewed the case several times over the past seven years, had failed in their duty: "In cases like this one, where there are serious questions and substantial doubts, our society, our laws and our courts should have a presumption in favor of life." As Mark Kleiman, who brought the Texas cases to our attention, points out, "An argument of some sort could be made for the Texas law, based on some combination of cost and the possibility that an impersonal institution will sometimes avoid mistakes that an emotionally-involved relative would make." But, he adds, "What I can't figure out is how someone could be genuinely outraged about the Schiavo case but not about the Hudson and Nikolouzos cases." The specifics of each case are different, but the central issue remains the same: whether the state should be able to sanction the removal of a human being from life support. The fact that President Bush signed into law in Texas a bill that gives health care providers the right to end human life is then certainly relevant, given his decision to sign the Schiavo legislation and his rhetoric concerning a "presumption in favor of life." But do Hudson and Nikolouzos show up in stories about Schiavo? Very, very rarely. A Google News search of "Sun Hudson" and "Schiavo" returns only ten results, mostly from small outlets, and "Nikolouzos" and "Schiavo" returns only five results. That shouldn't come as too much of a surprise since coverage of the Schiavo case has consistently skewed toward the emotional over the factual. And that has been to the advantage of those who want Schiavo kept alive. Most stories feature dueling quotes from Schiavo's media-savvy parents and her embattled husband, people whose anger over a difficult and emotional issue has been elevated to a national stage. More often than not, the tearful parents get top billing. Then there are the dueling quotes from grandstanding lawmakers, with Republicans far more vocal and emotional in their appeals than skittish Democrats. (Typical is this comment by Tom DeLay: "Mrs. Schiavo's life is not slipping away – it is being violently wrenched from her body in an act of medical terrorism.") Then there's the heartbreaking photo of Schiavo that has graced many of the web stories on the case, including those of CNN, The New York Times, The Los Angeles Times and The Washington Post. It shows Schiavo seeming to smile as she receives a kiss from her mother. (According to Schiavo's doctors, it's unlikely that her facial expressions reflect actual feeling.) The choice by news organizations to focus on this one photo from among the many available speaks to their priorities. Those who side with Schiavo's husband and the Florida courts might blame political bias for the choice of photo and the prominence of Schivo's parents – but the harsh truth is that news organizations simply want eyeballs, and the best way to get them is to tug at the readers' and viewers' heartstrings. Unlike the moralists in Congress, we're not about to take a side on the question of what should happen to Terri Schiavo. It's an incredibly difficult issue for those close to her, and we feel for both her parents and her husband. But the behavior of politicians and the role of the press are another matter entirely. We don't think that newspaper reporters have an obligation to point out every day that federal intervention in a state court case flies in the face of traditional conservatism, or the fact that some of the same people voting for the Schiavo bill voted for Medicare cuts that may well have similar effects as the Texas Futile Care Law. Those points are best left to columnists and commentators speaking from a variety of platforms. But journalists should at least make an effort to cut through the sensationalism surrounding the case and provide some context. We should hear more about the Futile Care Law, and news outlets should think twice before basing coverage on which side plucked the most heartstrings on any given day. With its performance to date in the Schiavo case, the press is displaying a tell-tale tendency for tabloid-style exploitation in the guise of serious reporting. Brian Montopoli is a staff writer at CJR Daily. 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URL: From nwinfrey at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 24 10:58:18 2005 From: nwinfrey at bellsouth.net (Nancy Winfrey) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 09:58:18 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Subject: [saymaListserv] Fw: Congress must stop grandstanding on the Schiavo tragedy Message-ID: <4242D58A.000004.02296@NANCY> -------Original Message------- From: Nancy Winfrey Date: 03/24/05 09:45:54 To: SAYMA LIST; Alan Johnson (alanj at clemson.edu); Alice Wald; Berg, Chris; Betty Jane Crandall (cran1228 at bellsouth.net); Debbie Peterson; Doris Wilson and Michael Johnson (dbwjw at yahoo.com; Ed Boggess; Emily Ohland (emohland at bellsouth.net); Gregg & Marcia LeFleur (Marcia.LeFleur at Certegy.co; Harriet Burt; Howard & Cheryl Semones (senegalady at aol.com); Kathy & Ken Bartelli (KBartelli at aol.com); Kevin Hovis; Larry Hartsell; Laura Townes (ljtownes at msn.com); Lee Gugerty (LGUGERTY at statecom.net); Lewis & Betsy Shallcross (leadmule at bellsouth.net); Linda (Teri's Mom); Linda Montgomery (lsmsc at hotmail.com); Linda Tartaro (LJCTNYUSA at webtv.net); Marcia LeFleur; Martha Ingel(MLHINGEL at bellsouth.net; Matthew Ohland (ohland at clemson.edu); Norman Goerlich (ingenorman at msn.com); Pat & Holli Caine (hcaine at dfnow.com); Pat Robinson; Paul and Jane Simkin; Peggy Burke (peggybe at alltel.net); Phil Powell (ppowell70 at msn.com); Richard K. & Susan Yerton (rkyerton at xtalwind net); Richard K. & Susan Yerton (sjryerton @xtalwind.ne; Robert & Nancy Caswell (ncaswell at twcny.rr.com); Robert & Nancy Caswell (rfcpdg at twcny.rr com); Sarah Fallaw; Steve & Barb Speck (bjspeck at direcway.com); Teresa Wilson (TWLSN at clemson.edu); teri (fluffytail1 at aol.com); Terry Ann Hayes (gabbyt at mindspring.com); Tom Fallaw; Turtle MacDermott; Victoria Welborn (vicwelborn at yahoo.com); Wayne and Natalie Finegar Subject: Congress must stop grandstanding on the Schiavo tragedy Dear friend On Sunday, Tom DeLay and Bill Frist, the Republican congressional leaders, convened an emergency meeting of Congress to pass a bill that recklessly interferes in the tragedy surrounding Terri Schiavo. Frist and DeLay claim that they're acting out of concern for Ms. Schiavo. But a memo intended only for Republican Senators--uncovered by ABC News--reveals Republicans' true concern: "The pro-life base will be excited. .this is a great political issue...this is a tough issue for Democrats." This story also takes the heat off Tom DeLay, who is facing a number of serious ethics charges and legal scandals Americans can have different personal opinions about what should happen to Terri Schiavo--life is precious, and this case raises some important ethical questions. But we can all agree that that's what the courts are for: to make the call in difficult circumstances. That's why Congress' interference is such an ugly and shameful incident of political grandstanding. Will you sign this petition to tell Congress they must stop using one person s tragedy for their own political gain, and move on to the important business facing our country Sign now at http://www.moveonpac.org/grandstandin Thanks -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: BackGrnd1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1431 bytes Desc: not available URL: From moriah at preferred.com Thu Mar 24 17:19:08 2005 From: moriah at preferred.com (Mary Calhoun) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:19:08 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] IMP^o^ 186 "threshing" flyer...web Message-ID: <022d01c530b7$6a7f4040$6464a2c6@abc> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ IMP ^o^ Bulletin 186 FYI: info about YM '05 threshing meeting... ...is now at www.sayma.org --------------------------------------------------- Re: "Consider YM name change?" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ (from the Administrative Assistant) <|> The threshing meeting announcement mailed recently to meetings & worship groups, and posted to the SAYMA listserv... <|> ... is now at http://www.sayma.org/YM2005/Rename_SAYMA.pdf. <|> ... for f/Friends who would find this resource useful. ~~~~~~ end ^o^ ~~~~~~ 1stpost 032405 ~~~~~~ _______________________________________ IMP ^o^ ... "Information Made Present" is a bulletin service of the SAYMA office to provide practical details to our geographically-challenged Yearly Meeting via our list-server: semi-official information, bulletins that you can print, post, announce, publish, or pass around. Please address questions, corrections and additions to AdminAsst at sayma.org, 276-628-5852 (machine; in-person Tu/Th 5-7:30p), or SAYMA Admin Asst, PO Box 2191, Abingdon, VA 24212-2191. Thank you! ^o^ ----------------------------------------------------- To receive IMP^o^ bulletins, subscribe to the list server, sayma at kitenet.net. You can subscribe on the web at http://kitenet.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sayma. ------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moriah at preferred.com Fri Mar 25 12:34:54 2005 From: moriah at preferred.com (Mary Calhoun) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 11:34:54 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] AA's census reminder... Message-ID: <0a3001c53159$153d0ca0$6464a2c6@abc> ...not just abstractions for files... . . . . . We've had 2 requests in 4 months from WQO's (wider Quaker organizations) for compiled #s from past SAYMA census reports! . . . . . . . . Dear f/Friends, Jan '05 Annual Census Worksheet Feb MfWfB Is your census Mar MfWfB proceeding well? ____________ Apr MfWfB Due ____________ Apr For those already sent... ____________ 30 ...thanks for your work! ____________ at the YM office. _____________ AdminAsst at sayma.org _ ___________ ___________ _ __ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: clip_image003.gif Type: image/gif Size: 2510 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: clip_image004.gif Type: image/gif Size: 2707 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: clip_image006.gif Type: image/gif Size: 3083 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jhminshall at comcast.net Fri Mar 25 20:27:36 2005 From: jhminshall at comcast.net (Janet Minshall) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 19:27:36 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] Fwd: Re: [afmdiscussion] The New York Times Opinion Editorial About Social Security "Shortfall" Message-ID: Hi Roy and Atlanta and SAYMA Friends, This has been a topic of discussion on the Jewish Friends List. You might find the following two messages useful/interesting: >Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 21:46:11 -0500 >To: jewishfriends at topica.com >From: Janet Minshall >Subject: Re: [JF] Concern Over Federal Budget >Cc: >Bcc: >X-Attachments: > >Hi Joy and Jewish Friends, Thanks so much, Joy, >for posting that info on the march in >Washington. I feel better knowing that SOMEONE >feels strongly enough about the budget and >related issues of faith to get out and protest. >I would have been there had I been well enough >and known about it in time. As it is I'm "all >stove up" and living precariously on SS >Disability and wondering if people just don't >understand what the attacks on Social Security >and the progressive income tax system that we >have (where the rich pay more taxes than the >poor) will actually achieve if they are >successful. > >A flat tax or a value added tax system such as >Bush has proposed would require the poor, >disabled and elderly, as well as the middle >class to accept a larger share of the country's >tax burden so that the rich could be relieved of >the onerous weight of helping to maintain an >equitable society. Even some of the very rich, >such as Warren Buffet and Bill Gates, have >spoken out against implementing such a tax plan. >(I guess they had to have some smarts to make >all that money in the first place.) And trying >to put our Social Security safety net into >private accounts, so that individuals without >enough information on investing could be blamed >when there wasn't enough money in their accounts >to get them through disability or retirement, is >just plain malevolent. > >As many of you know, I write from time to time >on political economics. When George Bush was >first elected and immediately came out with a >tax cut for the wealthy, I and many other >economists thought that what he was after was >spending down the federal budget to the point >where Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid >could not be maintained. > >The way we got to where we are is that Congress, >for many years, failed to put the money >collected for Social Security into Social >Security. Instead, each year, the money was >called a "surplus" and was spent for both >general budget and "pork barrel" line items. >Now, when Social Security needs that money, it >has already been spent and suddenly Bush tell us >there is a "crisis" in Social Security, and (by >the way) in Medicare and Medicaid too. There >isn't any crisis in Social Security. We are >just facing the point where Congress should be >made to admit its past mistakes and restore >funds to the Social Security Trust Fund that >they have squandered over the years. > >In his first term there were estimates from >economists that by rescinding just 50% of Bush's >huge tax cuts all those bad decisons by Congress >concerning the Social Security Trust Fund could >be remedied. Now Bush wants the huge tax cuts to >be made permanent, Social Security to be >privatized, and Medicaid to be "rethought". Need >I say that there is no Social Security crisis -- >there is a Bush crisis. He isn't representing >ordinary people. He is crudely representing the >wealthy and what he construes to be the best >interest of corporations. Interestingly, >however, many spokespersons for corporate >interests see his plans as devastating to US >society. Even many corporate types on Wall >Street are unsupportive of his plan to put >Social Security funds in their laps. > >I've gotten away from issues of faith, but not >really. Taking the part of the poor, the >disabled and the elderly and maintaining an >equitable and just society are the aims of both >Jews and Christians as stated in their holy >texts. >I'd march for that! Janet Minshall > > > > > > >>Friends, I don't usually post political things >>(except this week!), but when I read this, I >>thought it might be worth sharing. >> >>Joy >> >> >>People of Faith Declare Proposed 2006 Federal Budget Immoral >>Hundreds Attend March 14 Rally at United States Capitol Building >> >>Washington, D.C., March 14, 2005 - As the U.S. >>Senate began debating the 2006 fiscal year >>budget resolution yesterday, more than 300 >>people of faith participated in a rally on >>Capitol Hill to declare that the federal budget >>that has been proposed by the Bush >>Administration does not reflect their values. >> >>In the rally, sponsored by the National Council >>of Churches USA (NCC) and The Interfaith >>Alliance (TIA), people of faith from across the >>country gathered at the United Methodist >>Building, located at 100 Maryland Ave., NE, and >>marched to the West front of the U.S. Capitol >>to speak out against the proposed budget, which >>favors military spending and tax breaks for the >>wealthy and corporations and largely ignores >>the needs of the poor, children, the elderly, >>families and communities. >> >>The rally came on the heels of the 2005 >>Ecumenical Advocacy Days event, which drew >>close to 900 Christian pastors, ministers and >>church leaders from across the country and >>worldwide. The event began on Friday, March 11 >>and ended yesterday with participants visiting >>their representatives in Congress and >>participating in the rally. >> >>The Rev. Dr. Bob Edgar, NCC General Secretary, >>encouraged rally participants to remind their >>representatives in Congress that "this budget >>is immoral and does not reflect the values we >>hold as people of faith. The proposed budget >>spends about half on defense and the deficit >>but very little on addressing the needs of the >>poor, the dispossessed, children and those who >>are most in need." >> >>Rabbi Eric Yoffie, President of the Union for >>Reform Judaism, the largest American Jewish >>congregation, said, "We are here today to say >>that when we look at this budget, we see that >>American politics right now are fundamentally >>broken - corrupted by abuse, world >>indifference, and politicians who spend their >>days dialing for dollars." >> >>He went on to say that the task of people of >>faith is to share their bread with the hungry >>and "to send a message to our President and to >>leaders of both parties that despite squalor >>for the poor and gated communities for the >>rich, the great majority of Americans have not >>given up on 'We, the People.'" >> >>According to Arun Gandhi, grandson of the >>founder of the nonviolence movement, Mohandas >>Gandhi, and founder/president of the M.K. >>Gandhi Institute for Nonviolence as well as a >>member of the Board of Directors of The >>Interfaith Alliance, "The 2006 budget is >>immoral because while it cuts programs that >>help the poor and the needy it showers presents >>on the rich. Clearly, this budget seeks to make >>the rich richer while reducing the poor to >>panhandlers." >> >>Believing that the budget is a moral document, >>those gathered offered an alternative vision of >>the federal budget - one that rather than >>further burden the poor, families, and >>communities would provide them with the tools >>to meet their basic needs such as access to >>nutritious food and quality child care, >>accessible and affordable housing, >>comprehensive and affordable health care, high >>quality education at every stage of life, a >>fair and just tax system, job creation and a >>livable income to sustain their future. >> >>Rev. Dr. Welton Gaddy, President of The >>Interfaith Alliance, led participants in a >>litany that declared, "Fairness, compassion, >>integrity, and justice are the moral principles >>that should drive the crafting of the federal >>budget. As a moral document, the federal budget >>should not, and cannot, be built on the backs >>of the poor, the elderly and future >>generations." >> >>Three Members of Congress also joined the rally >>and offered remarks, Congresswomen Lynn >>Woolsey, (CA-6th), Lois Capps (CA-23rd) and >>Donna M. Christensen (D-U.S. Virgin Islands). >>Rep. Woolsey, who conducted a workshop on SMART >>Security (Sensible, Multilateral American >>Response to Terrorism) at the 2005 Ecumenical >>Advocacy Days, spoke of a time in her life when >>she was on welfare although she is educated and >>in good health. She thanked the rally >>participants for speaking out and urged those >>gathered to continue to advocate for a budget >>that helped those living in poverty. >> >>"Don't think for a minute that you aren't being >>heard. If they (Members of Congress) think >>they'll lose their jobs over this, they will >>listen," she said. >> >>Rep. Christensen encouraged participants to say >>no to the tax cuts for the wealthy that have >>been proposed by the Bush Administration. >>"Giving the richest people in the country more >>money takes away from educating our children. >>It robs our people, our families and >>communities of the opportunity to compete on a >>fair playing field. It takes safe, strong roofs >>from over our heads, and leaves us at salaries >>below a living wage or without any job at all," >>she said. >> >>Quoting President Bush's 2005 State of the >>Union address in which he said that society is >>measured by how it treats the weak and >>vulnerable, the Rev. Brenda Girton-Mitchell, >>NCC Associate General Secretary for Justice and >>Advocacy, asked, "The President said he wants >>to 'pass along freedom'Šbut how can we >>experience freedom when the basic values of our >>society are mocked by a budget that makes so >>many morally indefensible choices?" >> >>-end- >List-Unsubscribe: >Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 11:20:58 -0500 >Subject: Re: [afmdiscussion] The New York Times >Opinion Editorial About Social Security >"Shortfall" > > >None of the current reports speak to the issue that we have used SS funds >throughout the years to finance any number of budget shortfall programs of >the federal government and if that money was still in the system we would >have much less of a problem today (or 2041). >Roy > >> Hi, >> >> Good Number Cruching story from today's New York Times. >> >> Social Security NOT in danger of going bankrupt. >> >> Just in danger of being used as a distraction from other goings on in the >> country and world. >> >> Free > > >> >>============================================================================== >> >> >>Copyright >> 2005 The New York Times Company >> >> >> March 24, 2005 >> >> EDITORIAL >> >> About That Number >> >> t >> >> he Social Security trustees issued their annual report yesterday and said >> that by one measure, the shortfall in Social Security's finances jumped >> from $10.4 trillion last year to about $11 trillion this year. Eleven >> trillion dollars! The trustees, in service to President Bush's alarmist >> warnings about the need to do something drastic about Social Security, are >> dishing up some misleading numbers. >> >> It's bad enough that the trustees began some of their calculations with >> that $10.4 trillion figure. It's arrived at by projecting the system's >> shortfall over infinity, rather than the usual 75-year time frame - as if >> the system's finances 10,000 years from now are a legitimate policy >> concern. Moreover, no less an authority than the American Academy of >> Actuaries is already on record debunking infinite projections as conveying >> "little if any useful information about the program's long-range finances" >> and "likely to mislead anyone lacking technical expertise ... into >> believing that the program is in far worse financial condition than is >> actually indicated." >> >> Compounding the subterfuge is that the difference between this year's $11 >> trillion eyepopper and last year's number - $600 billion - is being used >> as >> evidence of a scary deterioration in Social Security's finances. That's >> just wrong. The two monster numbers are actually the same quantity - >> different ways of expressing an unchanging level of debt at two different >> points in time. If you owe someone $1,000 in 10 years, for instance, you >> could retire the debt now with $500, or next year with $530. Your level of >> debt doesn't change, just the time point. >> >> Some people who interpret the numbers as a deterioration appear to be >> confused. But others, like President Bush, are being deliberately >> alarmist. >> Mr. Bush's persistent misstatements on Social Security leave little doubt >> that he wants Americans to believe that the system is irretrievably broken >> so that they will buy into his unnecessary privatization plan. > > >> Fortunately, the unpoliticized numbers in yesterday's report are not >> overly >> dire. Using a 75-year time horizon, the trustees project that the system >> will be able to pay full benefits until 2041, at which time it will be >> able >> to pay 74 percent of the promised benefits, falling to 68 percent by 2079. >> That works out to a gap of $4 trillion, which could be bridged with modest >> tax increases and benefit cuts, phased in over the next few decades. If >> people try to tell you different, they need to be set straight. >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > >------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> >Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease? >Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts! >http://us.click.yahoo.com/UwRTUD/UOnJAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM >--------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > ><*> To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/afmdiscussion/ > ><*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > afmdiscussion-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com > ><*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From freepolazzo at comcast.net Sat Mar 26 09:56:03 2005 From: freepolazzo at comcast.net (free polazzo) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 08:56:03 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] NYTimes.com: Me and My Hybrid Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050326084637.031612c0@mail.comcast.net> Hi Friends, It seems that individuals can do something about air pollution and use less oil at the same time by purchasing a hybrid car. With the increasing gas prices, it can even be a sound investment. Talk about win-win-win. The hardest thing about owning a hybrid is not feeling smug as you drive into a gas station! Interestingly enough, when I attended the SAYMA Ministry and Worship Committee meeting in Brevard a few weeks ago, there were 3 hybrids in the driveway at a meeting of 10 people. Way to go, Friends!! Free The New York Times >OPINION | March 25, 2005 >Op-Ed >Contributor: Me and My Hybrid >By OLIVER SACKS >Americans could save 50 billion gallons of gas a year by switching to >hybrid vehicles. >[] > >[] > >Copyright >2005 The New York Times Company -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 173ca620.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3990 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 173ca62f.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 652 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jhminshall at comcast.net Mon Mar 28 10:24:19 2005 From: jhminshall at comcast.net (Janet Minshall) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 09:24:19 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] Fwd: Globalization and the Poor: Do Quakers have a realistic view of world poverty? Message-ID: Dear Atlanta Meeting and SAYMA Friends, The following is a recent draft of an article which has been submitted for publication. Please let me know if you have any questions, suggestions or comments that might be incorporated into the final draft should it be accepted for publication. Best Regards, Janet Minshall GLOBALIZATION AND THE POOR: Do Quakers have a realistic view of world poverty? Several months ago there was a request from our Yearly Meeting office (SAYMA) to comment on/provide an alternative interpretation for an article in the New York Times,11-24 04, by David Brooks, which cited the amazingly positive results of globalization on the poor of the world. It is important for Friends to understand this issue as it relates both to our Testimony on Truth and to our beliefs in Jesus' teachings to reach out and help the poor. The realities of globalization are primarily positive from a Quaker perspective in that globalization is actually achieving a major economic goal in the world which Quakers have long sought, i.e. rapidly bringing the poor out of poverty in those countries which are in process of globalizing. Globalization and its proponents are widely mistrusted and their achievements denied and denounced by many Friends. Some vocal representatives of the labor movement have spread the ideology that any production done outside the US or Western Europe which is provided at lower than US/European wages and benefits amounts to exploitation. Similarly they say any places and conditions of employment which do not meet the standards of those in the US and Western Europe are sweatshops. Further, anyone who works in production in countries outside of the US or Western Europe is said to be at considerable risk of being kidnapped and forcibly enslaved. All of these conclusions are patently false. The clear implication is that we consumers in the US should feel very guilty about buying anything made in other countries by "foreigners" and we should demand in demonstrations and editorials that no one else in the world be permitted to do the work of US, European and multinational corporations but the highly paid middle-class workers who have done that work in the past. Those of you who actually research the issue of globalization will find that such misrepresentations are egregiously self-serving on behalf of the US and Western European labor unions and grossly unfair to the workers and potential workers in the rest of the world. Globalization is a process which has been occurring over many many decades. Economic analyses indicate that the globalization which took place in the early part of the twentieth century was actually more rapid than what is occurring at present. Because the process is now old enough to examine thoroughly, there are many good articles and books available on the actual effects of globalization on the peoples of the world. While some are slanted to support particular political agendas (propaganda), many are written objectively by people from a wide variety of cultures and countries. In addition to David Brooks' 11-27-04 piece in the New York Times, which skims over some of the very good news about the effects of globalization on the world's poor, there is the Martin Wolf book which Brooks refers to: Why Globalization Works published by Yale University Press, 2004. Martin Wolf is The Associate Editor and Chief Economics Commentator at the Financial Times in London. Another good book from a slightly different perspective is In Defense of Globalization by Jagdish Bhagwati, also published in 2004. Bhagwati is University Professor at Columbia University and Andre Meyer Senior Fellow in International Economics at the Council on Foreign Relations. He is also a former Special Advisor to the United Nations on Globalization. Contrary to what you may read in anti-globalization leaflets and press releases, between 1980 and 2000 75% of the world's population achieved an enormous increase in both average incomes and living standards due to the effects of globalization. Summarized From Martin Wolf's book in the chapter "Why The Critics Are Wrong", pg. 143, "never before have so many people, or so large a proportion of the world's population, enjoyed such large rises in their standard of living -- India produced an approximately 100% increase in real GDP per head and China nearly a 400% increase in real GDP per head. Meanwhile, GDP per head in high income countries (with only 15% of the world's population) rose by 2.1% between 1975 and 2000, and by only 1.7% per year between 1990 and 2001. A much shorter piece appears in the November/December 2004 issue of Foreign Affairs. It raises an interesting point which helps, along with the data cited above, to explain some of the intense reactions against globalization by the middle class around the world (which would include most Quakers). The article is "Globalization's Missing Middle" by Geoffrey Garrett. He, too, describes the astoundingly positive effect of globalization on the poor of the world and admits that the rich also benefit, but his primary focus is the fact that "middle income countries have not done nearly as well under globalized markets as either richer or poorer countries..." He explains (as I explained in an article in Friendly Woman magazine, Winter 2001 Issue, Vol.14, #5) that the middle class workers in many countries like the US don't have the technical and scientific education necessary to compete for the higher wage jobs which have developed over the past twenty years or so. Thus the relatively poorly trained and educated group of workers in the US, and in some parts of Europe, is stuck trying to force governments and major employers to keep those higher wage jobs at home rather than have them outsourced to better educated and less expensive workers in China, India and elsewhere. To his credit, John Sweeney, President of the AFL-CIO, recognized the problem years ago and established union-funded programs to upgrade the education and skills of layed off workers in the US. But many of those who might benefit from such an upgrade think they are somehow entitled to their previous jobs for the rest of their working lives without any further training. Friends frequently express concern for truth, simplicity, equality and peace, all venerable Quaker testimonies. In keeping with those testimonies Friends are required to search continuously for ways of understanding the realities of the world which put them on the side of the poor and the oppressed. Some middle class labor movement representatives have succeeded in convincing Friends that the workers in the US and European labor movements are the poor and oppressed and that we Friends should take sides with them against those who are truly poor in other countries. Our companies which outsource most usually pay significantly better wages, provide better benefits and combat sexual, class and cultural/tribal/caste discrimination more effectively than local employers in the countries where they send their work. These seem like effects which Friends would want to support. As many of us have learned, it is the disaffected middle class which has the time and the resources to organize politically. Rather than organizing against the poor of the world, middle class people and those in middle income countries need to put their energy into innovation and change. Rather than "dumbing down" and trying to retain repetitive manufacturing and service jobs, they need to "tech up" their educational and training programs to acquire and keep the newer jobs being developed. Summarizing from Geoffrey Garrett's article in Foreign Affairs (cited above), organizing in middle income countries might focus on deep reforms in infrastructure as well as in institutions such as "government, banking and law to transform economies that stifle innovation into ones that foster it with strong property-rights regimes, effective financial systems and good governance." This sounds like a call for the middle class to put our own house in order here in the US: First and most importantly, we need to better educate and train our workers. To accomplish necessary institutional change in the US, after exposing the hypocrisy of Bush's "No Child Left Behind" policy, we need to replace the Republican's misdirected and ineffective efforts with significant and substantial upgrades to our educational system. Our workers need to be prepared for the jobs on the cutting edge of innovation and change rather than being dragged along behind the economy kicking and screaming. The efforts of crusaders like New York's Attorney General, Elliott Spitzer, who is calling major corporations and industries to account by cleaning up both their boards and their books needs wider support and encouragement. Examining the process for casting and counting ballots in this country is equally important and deserves our involvement. Finally, the McCain-Feingold initiative to reform campaign financing doesn't go far enough. We need to build a fire wall between our elected representatives and the corporate and other special interests who have apparently become their primary constituency. All of these efforts are more important for the survival and well-being of workers and their jobs in the US than uselessly shaking our fists at the process of globalization and outsourcing. Janet Minshall -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nc_stereoman at charter.net Mon Mar 28 10:43:19 2005 From: nc_stereoman at charter.net (Steve Livingston) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 09:43:19 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] Re: [Memphis Quaker - Old List] Gay at the Gathering In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4247D1B7.32101.7BF566@localhost> Your inquiry cuts to the very heart of the matter, Kristi! Your concerns are among the 1001 reasons why I believe Quaker meetings should stop participating in State-sanctioned marriages unless the home State affords the same rights to all couples. But I offer the following to assuage your concerns about attending the Gathering in July. There is a clause in the Constitution that states: "Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State." This is interpreted to mean, in effect, that the laws of your home state take precedence over disputing laws in another state where you happen to be visiting. The "full faith and credit" clause is the reason why a Constitutional Amendment is required in order to outlaw same-gender unions. Without an amendment, any given State may provide legal matrimony to same-gender couples, and the rights and privileges afforded by that contract must be respected in other States regardless of their particular prohibitions. I look forward to seeing you and your two children - and maybe your partner - at our Gathering in July! I hope Way may open for another family with children to travel with you, so the kids may enjoy getting to know one another on the long journey, and your Mommy-van will only use half as much fuel per person! Steve On 22 Mar 2005 at 8:59, Quakerkristi at aol.com wrote: > As I look at the material about Gathering I consider > that my children would really enjoy and benefit from being with this > larger group of Quaker kids. . . > > But it is in Virginia and Virginia has this particularly threatening > law: > > If something happened to the kids > could I see them and > make decisions? From moriah at preferred.com Mon Mar 28 12:21:17 2005 From: moriah at preferred.com (Mary Calhoun) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 11:21:17 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] IMP^o^ 187 "day attender" at 4/2 Rep Mtg ? Message-ID: <05b301c533b2$3b92d140$6464a2c6@abc> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ IMP ^o^ Bulletin 187 Attending only Sat Apr 2 part of Rep Meeting weekend? Sent in your registration for this? ......................................................................... Host meeting needs "day attenders" registered too ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >From the Administrative Assistant Please share with your meeting or worship group -- Thanks! <|> Spring Rep Meeting planners are wondering whether some f/Friends intend to be "day attenders" (Saturday only, no overnight) at SAYMA's 4/2/05 session, and so have not registered.... <|> ....The total number registered is so far quite small. <|> To help lunch planners, all attenders need to be registered. <|> Please contact Millie Gimmel right away if you are not already registered for Spring Rep Mtg and plan to attend it -- rumbareina at yahoo.com 865-524-1021 <|> If you lack a registration packet, please contact the SAYMA office at AdminAsst at sayma.org or 276-628-5852. <|> Thanks! ~~~~~~ end ^o^ ~~~~~~ 1stpost 032805 ~~~~~~ _______________________________________ IMP ^o^ ... "Information Made Present" is a bulletin service of the SAYMA office to provide practical details to our geographically-challenged Yearly Meeting via our list-server: semi-official information, bulletins that you can print, post, announce, publish, or pass around. Please address questions, corrections and additions to AdminAsst at sayma.org, 276-628-5852 (machine; in-person Tu/Th 5-7:30p), or SAYMA Admin Asst, PO Box 2191, Abingdon, VA 24212-2191. Thank you! ^o^ ----------------------------------------------------- To receive IMP^o^ bulletins, subscribe to the list server, sayma at kitenet.net. You can subscribe on the web at http://kitenet.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sayma. ------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GlennReinhart at aol.com Fri Mar 18 00:13:37 2005 From: GlennReinhart at aol.com (GlennReinhart at aol.com) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 23:13:37 EST Subject: [saymaListserv] Quakers in the News 3-17-2005 Message-ID: Dear Friend, You may click on the blue underlined links below to go to the full text story for the week ending 3/18. The most widely reported story of the week was: AFSC War Public Revilement Boots Calif. Anti-War Memorial Stirs Passions ABC News All All USA 11-Mar-05 The AP wire story was picked up in 39 major market journals in the US and UK The most interesting story to me was: AFSC War Public Revilement Boots Mothers of the fallen protest exhibition?s use of sons? names Marine Times VA USA 14-Mar-05 Religious Faith Evangelism Our Friend Lyons Winston-Salem Journal Winston-Salem NC USA 10-Mar-05 Religious Faith Prayer RUAH Spirituality Institute upcoming events Brookline TAB Brookline MA USA 10-Mar-05 Religious Diversity Marriage Turning 100 all in family for Landis Lancaster Newspapers Lancaster PA USA 10-Mar-05 Religious Diversity Obituary Mortuary owner White dies Whittier Daily News Whittier CA USA 17-Mar-05 Quaker Schools Arts Sandy Spring Friends School All in the family Baltimore Sun Baltimore MD USA 13-Mar-05 Quaker Schools Book Review The Ivy Chronicles Sunday Lunch with ... Karen Quinn Chicago Sun-Times Chicago IL USA 13-Mar-05 Quaker Schools Parents Volvo Drivers On the House | Without a car, without a care: You can rent one by ... Philadelphia Inquirer Philadelphia PA USA 13- Quaker Schools Quaker school chief to leave for NM college Philadelphia Inquirer Philadelphia PA USA 17-Mar-05 Quaker Influence Politics and Economics Blairite Boateng is handed £198,000 post The Scotsman Glasgow Scotland UK 15-Mar-05 Quaker History Business Dickinson FCATs curtail outings, field trip planners say Sun-Sentinel.com Miami FL USA 10-Mar-05 Quaker History Fire Architecture Fire guts historic meeting house Bucks Free Press Bucks UK USA 17-Mar-05 Quaker History Health Care Women's Rights Historic E. Falls hospital to close Philadelphia Enquirer Philadelphia PA USA 10-Mar-05 Quaker History Religious Faith Peace Chicago breakdown: It's Illinois in the region of doom CBS Sportsline New York NY USA 14-Mar-05 Quaker History Slavery Quaker Schools Playing a Role in History Shore Publishing Madison CT USA 11-Mar-05 Quaker History Slavery Museum Exhibit State funds 'stop' on Underground Railroad Rochester Democrat and Chronicle Rochester NY USA 11-Mar-05 Quaker History William Penn Author adapts as life's twists dictate The Oregonian Portland OR USA 10-Mar-05 Quaker History Women Humanitarian Assistance Alice Paul: World War II lifesaver Cherry Hill Courier Post Cherry Hill NJ USA 11-Mar-05 Mental Health Counseling Center schedules open house Wabash Plain Dealer Wabash IN USA 10-Mar-05 International Conflict Israel American activist returns to Israel seeking justice / Erica ... Al-Bawaba Jordan M.E. 14-Mar-05 Gambling Quaker Schools Bookmakers' bait on Ferguson exit looks so tempting Times Online London England UK 12-Mar-05 Ecology Human Rights Obituary Child of rights, lover of learning Milwaukee Journal Sentinal Milwaukee WI USA 10-Mar-05 Conflict Resolution Non-Violence Nonviolence Workshop San Antonio Current San Antonia TX USA 10-Mar-05 Church State ACLU files suit over Martin's Cove lease Provo Daily Herald Provo UT USA 10-Mar-05 Business Quaker Schools Consumer Watch | Teens talk fads, fashions, credit Philadelphia Inquirer Philadelphia PA USA 14-Mar-05 Business Layoff brought to surface desire to hone new skill Indianapolis Star Indianapolis IN USA 12-Mar-05 Architecture Religious Faith Changing Skyline | New Swarthmore buildings marry tradition and ... Philadelphia Inquirer Philadelphia PA USA 11-Mar- AFSC Politics and Economics Immigration Business Bill ups penalty for unpaid wages Boulder Daily Camera Boulder CO USA 14-Mar-05 AFSC International Conflict Politics and Economics Israel Camden bishop plans meetings with parishioners Philadelphia Inquirer Philadelphia PA USA 12- AFSC International Conflict Sudan Votes scheduled on school budgets The Republican Amherst MA USA 12-Mar-05 AFSC Politics and Economics Immigration Catholic Charities Caper; Alms for Illegal Aliens Magic City Morning Star Millenockett ME USA 12-Mar-05 AFSC Politics and Economics Housing Church shelter aims to save and stabilize lives Concord Monitor Concord NH USA 14-Mar-05 AFSC Politics and Economics Immigration Groups Bring Fight Over Immigration Rights to International Body Epoch Times New York NY USA 10-Mar- AFSC Politics and Economics Immigration Officials, rights groups debate legality of 'Minuteman Project' North County Times San Diego CA USA 10-Mar-AFSC Politics and Economics War Peace march to mark Iraq anniversary Rice Lake Chronotype Rice Lake WI USA 10-Mar-05 AFSC War Public Revilement Boots Calif. Anti-War Memorial Stirs Passions ABC News All All USA 11-Mar-05 AFSC War Public Revilement Boots Memorial stirs objection, support among parents of deceased Boston Globe Boston MA USA 12-Mar-05 AFSC War Public Revilement Boots Mothers of the fallen protest exhibition?s use of sons? names Marine Times VA USA 14-Mar-05 AFSC War Boots Quakers Bring Comment On War To City Gazette Newspapers Long Beach CA USA 10-Mar-05 AFSC War Boots Tears flow at exhibit of empty boots North County Times San Diego / Riverside CA USA 10-Mar-05 AFSC War Peace Activism Peace activist here to mark war anniversary The Bozeman Daily Chronicle Bozeman MT USA 09-Mar-05 AFSC Humanitarian Assistance Afghanistan Letter: Donate to afghans for Afghans group Lexington Minuteman Lexington MA USA 17-Mar-05 AFSC War Protest Groups to hold protest of Iraq war Akron Beacon Journal Akron OH USA 17-Mar-05 AFSC War Naked City Austin Chronicle Austin TX USA 17-Mar-05 AFSC War Counter-Recruiting Recruiters have rivals for hearts and minds MarineTimes.com VA USA 15-Mar-05 AFSC War Two and Counting Pitch Weekly MO USA 16-Mar-05 War Conscientious Objecton Iraq Canada contentious objector Lexington Herald-Leader Lexington KY USA 13-Mar-05 War Counter-Recruiting Politics and Economics Iraq Anti-recruiting voices swelling Intelligencer Quakertown PA USA 14-Mar-05 War Peace Tax Quaker tax protesters challenge law Accountancy Age London England UK 10-Mar-05 War Politics and Economics Peace Churches Concerned About `Back Door' Draft Among Poor ... Religion News Service Chicago IL USA 11-Mar-05 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GlennReinhart at aol.com Fri Mar 25 05:37:46 2005 From: GlennReinhart at aol.com (GlennReinhart at aol.com) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 04:37:46 EST Subject: [saymaListserv] Quakers in the News - 3/25/2005 Message-ID: Dear Friend, Please feel free to comment on any of these stories on the Quakers in the News website. You may click on any of the blue underlines below to read a summary and the full text article of each story. The most widely reported stories of the week (on the 2nd anniversary of the invasion of Iraq) were: Instances / Categories / Title / Journal / Date / Wire Service 74 War /Iraq/Activist/Meetinghouse/Anti-war protests spill into second day as demonstrators mark ...San Diego Union Tribune / 20-Mar-05 / AP 16 War/Iraq/Protest/Quaker House/Former GIs take point in protests/Chicago Tribune/Chicago/IL/USA/20-Mar-05 15 War/Iraq/Desertion/Canada/Kentucky man becomes public face of US military deserters in .../Lexington Herald-Leader/Lexington/KY/USA/22-Mar-05 8 War/Iraq/Activist/Arrest/In Chicago, 1,000 protest war/Chicago Tribune/Chicago/IL/USA/19-Mar-05 5 AFSC/War/Iraq/Protest/Protesters mark anniversary of Iraq war/Concord Monitor/Concord/NH/USA/20-Mar-05 3 AFSC/War/Iraq/Protest/Anti-War Activists Rally Downtown Saturday/WHO-TV, IA/Des Moines/IA/USA/19-Mar-05 The following stories were also reported this week: Quaker Schools /Politics and Economics/Business/Quaker Ancestry/Portman's role good fit - for now/Cincinnati Enquirer/Cinncinati/OH/USA/20-Mar-05 Quaker History/Even-keeled//Nashville City Paper/Nashville City Paper/Nashville/TN/USA/20-Mar-05 Quaker History/ Geneaology//National conference draws top speakers/Lebanon Daily News/Lebanon/PA/USA/21-Mar-05 Quaker History/War/Conscientious Objection/14 Phila.-area sites to get familiar signs/Philadelphia Inquirer/Philadelphia/PA/USA/24-Mar-05 Quaker Faith /Euthanasia//Local religious leaders, lawyers, weigh in on case /Goldsboro News Argus/Goldsboro/NC/USA/24-Mar-05 Obituary /Adoption///Melissa M. Kellhofer /News-Herald.com/Cleveland/OH/USA/24-Mar-05 International Conflict/Africa/Burundi//Berkeley This Week/Berkeley Daily Planet/Berkeley/CA/USA/22-Mar-05 FCNL/Lobbying///The values lobbyists work the Hill /MSNBC/ALL/ALL/USA/24-Mar-05 Arts/Music/Women //Choral extravaganza at Music Hall April 8/Dover Community News/Dover/NH/USA/24-Mar-05 AFSC/War/Iraq/Protest/Protesting the war/Cleveland Plain Dealer/Cleveland/OH/USA/19-Mar-05 AFSC/War/Iraq/Protest/Anti-War Activists Rally Downtown Saturday/Iowa Channel.com/Des Moines/IA/USA/20-Mar-05 AFSC/War/Iraq/Protest/Quad-Citians join hands in global war protest/Quad City Times/Quad Cities/IA/USA/20-Mar-05 AFSC/War/Iraq/Protest/Protesters denounce Iraq war/Akron Beacon Journal/Akron/OH/USA/20-Mar-05 AFSC/War/Iraq/Protest/Why Iraq Withdrawal Makes Sense/Columbus Free Press/Columbus/OH/USA/21-Mar-05 AFSC/War/Iraq/Protest/Trek to recruiting office marks second anniversary of Iraq .../Columbia Missourian, /Columbia/MO/USA/23-Mar-05 War/Iraq/Protest//New Paltz to Host Anti-war Protest/New Paltz Oracle/New Paltz/NY/USA/17-Mar-05 War/Counter-Recruiting//Group protests 'stealth recruiting' by military at Palm Beach .../WPTV/Palm Beach/FL/USA/18-Mar-05 War/Iraq///Americans still split on war after 2 years/International Herald Tribune/Paris/France/E.U./18-Mar-05 War/Conscientious Objecton /Area residents receive conscientious objector training/Tahlequah Daily Press/OK/USA/18-Mar-05 War/Protest/1960's//Van Doorn, Quakers think they know more about peace than you/North County Times/Ventura/CA/USA/19-Mar-05 War/Iraq/Prayer//The Bulletin/The Register-Guard/Eugene/OR/USA/19-Mar-05 War/Iraq/Draft/Conscientious Objection/Churches unite against draft threat /District Chronicles /Washington/DC/USA/24-Mar-05 War /Christian Peacemaker/Iraq//Rob Zaleski: All this Iraqi wanted was an apology/The Capital Times/Madison/WI/USA/20-Mar-05 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From GlennReinhart at aol.com Fri Mar 25 15:55:25 2005 From: GlennReinhart at aol.com (GlennReinhart at aol.com) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 14:55:25 EST Subject: [saymaListserv] Quakers in the News - fixed links Message-ID: <1f4.649c514.2f75c6ad@aol.com> Dear Friend, I've fixed some links from the website to the news sources that were noted in the latest email. Please try them again and they should work. Friend, Glenn the website address is: http://quakersinthenews.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From DrsBarch at aol.com Thu Mar 24 19:58:59 2005 From: DrsBarch at aol.com (DrsBarch at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 18:58:59 EST Subject: [saymaListserv] regarding FGC Summer Gathering Message-ID: <126.599750d4.2f74ae43@aol.com> Dear Friends, We have become aware of the concern raised by Kristi Estes on this site about bringing her children with her to Gathering in Virginia. We have been aware of this concern even before the Virginia Law which Kristi cites went into effect last summer, though this was long after the Gathering site had been selected. Indeed, there were considerable discussions at Gathering last summer in FLGBTQC Meeting for Business and in called sessions as well to look at the potential impact of this law on Friends, particularly on adoptive parents but also on gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender or queer Friends or others who are not in traditional marriage relationships. Indeed, during our hours of joint discernment, it became clear to many present that we are clear that we are called to Virginia to witness to that of God in our gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender and queer Friends and we are working with FLGBTQC to coordinate what forms that witness will take. In order to gain clarity about the situation we might face in Blacksburg, Liz Perch (as Gathering Coordinator) Frank and Jean-Marie Prestwidge Barch (as Gathering CoClerks) spoke in person and at some length with the President and CEO of the local hospital, Ward Stevens. He informed us that the hospital will honor any durable power of attorney document and any written and signed note from a legal parent authorizing anyone to make medical decisions for that person (or child, in the case of a minor) without further regard to the relationship between these people. He told us that he actually carries such a document himself in the glove compartment of his car although he is in a marriage recognized by the Commonwealth of Virginia. (Samples of these documents will be available for download on the FLGBTQC website well in advance of the Gathering.) He further informed us that it is hospital policy that if someone is in the Intensive Care Unit (where visitors are usually limited in all hospitals) they may receive two visitors at a time; there are no restrictions on who may visit. We also checked that particular policy with the head nurse in the ICU since any questions would rest with her discretion for adjudication in the normal course of events; she affirmed that this is not only policy, but also practice at this hospital. Additionally, we spent time with the Provost of Virginia Tech, Mark McNamee, and he assured us that it is University policy and practice to uphold gender and sexual preference neutrality; he was clear that challenges to the safety or comfort of Gathering attenders on such grounds would not occur on the Virginia Tech campus. A member of FLGBTQC's Ministry and Council has had communication with the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Alliance on the VTech campus and been reassured by their responses that our conversations with Mark McNamee match their experiences. You can find information about them on their homepage: _http://www.lgbta.org.vt.edu/_ (http://www.lgbta.org.vt.edu/) . Please fell free to contact us directly at _05clerks at adelphia.net_ (mailto:05clerks at adelphia.net) if you have further questions of concerns. In the Light, Jean-Marie Prestwidge Barch and Frank Barch 2005 Gathering Co-Clerks -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From freepolazzo at comcast.net Thu Mar 31 21:44:32 2005 From: freepolazzo at comcast.net (free polazzo) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 20:44:32 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] Fwd: Save the Sierra Club from Hostile Takeover Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050331204245.031d2c18@mail.comcast.net> Hi, If any folks at Meeting belong to the Sierra Club, this will be of interest to you. Free >Anti-immigrant groups are trying to force the Sierra Club to oppose >immigration, sidetracking the Club from urgent environmental fights. Help >defend this important ally: if you're a Sierra Club member, Vote No on the >ballot question on immigration. Read below for instructions. >Dear MoveOn member, > >Are you a Sierra Club member? The future of the Sierra Club is at stake. > >Last year, Sierra Club members voted in record numbers to defeat a hostile >takeover attempt by outside groups hoping to use the Club's democratic >processes to push their own anti-immigration agenda. Now, these groups >have forced an anti-immigrant measure onto the 2005 Sierra Club ballot >that would require the Club to advocate for new restrictions on >immigration into the U.S.­a policy that will do nothing to protect the >global environment but will cripple the Sierra Club at a time when all >progressives need them to be powerfully focused on righting the >environmental wrongs of the current administration. > >Why are we getting involved? Groundswell Sierra, a network of Sierra Club >members and former staff, asked us to tell the hundreds of thousands of >Club members in the MoveOn community, many of whom are in the dark because >by-laws keep Club staff from discussing this issue. It's such a serious >threat to the progressive movement we felt we needed to pass it on. > >If right-wing anti-immigrant groups succeed in their stealth drive to >change the Club's agenda, it would drive a wedge between environmental >groups and millions of Americans, including Latinos who have led the >environmental justice movement and are an important part of the >progressive community. It would be a serious setback for the larger >progressive coalition, and make the Sierra Club, the largest grassroots >environmental organization, much less effective in blocking President >Bush's anti-environmental agenda. > >These outside groups are also running stealth candidates for the board of >directors without declaring their true anti-immigrant agenda. But a >decisive defeat could end their efforts to take over the Sierra Club. > >If you are a Sierra Club member, you'll receive your ballot in the mail >any day now. Groundswell Sierra recommends: > > * Vote "No" on the ballot question on immigration. > * Vote for only 5 of these 6 experienced Sierra Club candidates for > the Board: > * Jim CatlinChuck McGrady > * Barbara FrankJennifer Ferenstein > * Joni BoshJim Dougherty > > * Please vote for only 5 of these candidates­voting for all 6 will > disqualify your ballot! > * You can vote online but must have your paper ballot in hand. For > info on voting and a sample ballot, go to: > * http://www.moveon.org/r?r=677&t=1 > * Let us know you're voting, so we can track our impact. Click here: > * > http://www.moveon.org/sierra/?id=5297-3383045-wtXn6gFvpD1oWi0CEuWVMw&t=1 > * Please pass this on to your Sierra Club member friends. > >Who's behind the attempt get the Sierra Club to oppose immigration? Some >supporters are environmentalists who believe that ending immigration will >reduce environmental damage (though world-renowned scientists Anne and >Paul Ehrlich, who wrote the seminal book The Population Bomb, disagree and >oppose this takeover). But much of the impetus comes from long time, >extreme-right immigration opponents who've adopted a strategy of >"greenwashing" their arguments to gain mainstream support for denying >immigrants basic human rights like health care or education. > >Opponents of the anti-immigrant measure and board candidates include >Robert Kennedy, Jr., former Environmental Protection Agency head Carol >Browner, and every living current or former Sierra Club president. > >During last year's fight, the New York Times editorialized, "Adding such a >toxic issue as immigration to the Sierra Club's agenda would simply divert >the organization from its primary responsibility, which is to keep real >environmental problems in the public consciousness."1 Robert Redford >wrote, "Blaming immigrants will not solve any of our environmental >problems. Refocusing the Sierra Club on stopping President Bush will... >America needs the same Sierra Club that kept the Grand Canyon from being >dammed and flooded, that helped create the Grand Staircase-Escalante >National Monument, that is working tirelessly to stop the Bush >administration from drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, back >at full strength and on the front lines in the fight against Bush and his >administration. It's a fight we won't win without the Club."2 > >The Sierra Club board has worked to educate Club members about this issue: >you can read the organization's policy on the issue at >http://www.groundswellsierra.org/migration011405.pdf, >and read an argument against the current ballot proposal at >http://www.groundswellsierra.org/immigration_nov2004.php. > >If you are a Sierra Club member, please take the time to vote on this >important issue. > >Thank you, > >–Adam, Eli, Justin, and the MoveOn.org team > Thursday, March 31st, 2005 > >Sources: >1. "Rumble at the Sierra Club," New York Times, March 17, 2004 >http://www.groundswellsierra.org/nyt_rumble.php > >2. "Redford's Plea for the Sierra Club," San Francisco Chronicle, April >17, 2004 >http://www.groundswellsierra.org/sf_redford.php > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bright_crow at mindspring.com Thu Mar 31 23:09:02 2005 From: bright_crow at mindspring.com (Michael Austin Shell) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 22:09:02 -0500 Subject: [saymaListserv] Fourth Month Update: SEYMpeace.org Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20050331215028.02920560@pop.mindspring.com> Friends, I invite you to visit the First Day, Fourth Month, update of Southeastern Yearly Meeting's P&SC website: http://www.seympeace.org/ :-) Note: The "Thought for Third Month" http://www.seympeace.org/reading.html#gwyn2 considered Douglas Gwyn's discussion of the phrase "that of God." This month's entry http://www.seympeace.org/#THOUGHT draws upon Howard Brinton's discussion of the Quaker notion that at a given time each person receives a "measure of the Light." Both of these readings are relevant to the question of how Friends go about living the testimonies. Blessed Be, Michael.