[saymaListserv] SAYMA and the function of our Queries

Sat May 14 13:53:32 EDT 2005

Dear Friends,

There has been much gnashing of teeth over the use of the internet. The 
internet use question may become moot, should the deeper issues be resolved.

In our Quakerism 101 class last week, we were pointed to study Howard 
Brinton's "Friends for 300/350 years", chapter 7, on "The Meeting 
Community"    Friend Brinton says:  (bold items are mine)

"The Query which as been the longest in continuous use by the Society of 
Friends is this: "Are love and unity maintained amongst you?"  It dates 
from 1682.  Any quarrels or disagreements within the group became an object 
of concern to the Meeting and the old Query: "Where differences arise are 
endeavors made speedily to end them?"   could usually be answered in the 
affirmative.. . ".

It appears that there are Meetings in SAYMA where this query may be read, 
but may not be lived.   We also read in that same chapter by Brinton that:

" . . Answers to the Queries were expected to reveal the shortcomings in 
the membership.   thus the Quarterly Meeting could learn the state of the 
Monthy Meetings, and the Yearly Meetings could learn of the state of the 
Quarterly Meetings and extend advice and help as might be required.  The 
Queries were a kind of group confessional by which every individual and 
every meeting was able at regular intervals of a year or less to check 
actual conduct against an ideal standard of behavior.  The Queries covered 
all that was expected of the consistent Friend.  They were frequently 
revised as new moral insights prevailed or old testimonies became obsolete"

I wonder if the "State of the Meeting" reports that will be submitted to 
SAYMA at our Yearly Meeting next month, will list any  shortcomings in 
those Meetings?   Or will they be mostly glowing accounts of what wonderful 
works the various and sundry meetings have accomplished last year?   I'll 
predict it will be more like our collective egos run amok and not a list of 
our shortcomings as Friend Brinton suggests.

Have we become so vain, that we forgot that the Queries are not to find out 
how "great" we are, but to allow us to disclose to people that are of 
import to us, where we are lacking as individuals and as a community?  How 
can we receive help, if we do not ask for it?  How can we create the 
peaceable kindom if we cannot see the "mote" in our own eyes?   How can we 
heal if we don't acknowledge that we are ill?

Do we not love each other enough to be truthful about ourselves and the 
areas we are lacking?   If not, we are in big trouble, Friends.   For 
others will see that we are carrying much pain and grief while saying we 
are "walking cheerfully".   If we are unable to acknowledge and resolve 
conflicts in our own back yards "speedily",  our Peace Testimony will sound 
hollow as Friends ask others do what we cannot.

Let us love one another in the Light that loves us all.

Let us "Speak Truth to Quakers"

Let the chips fall where they may.

Blessings,

Free

Dougalsville, GA

At 10:11 PM 5/11/2005, Joe Parko wrote:

> > Janet,
> > I agree that our social concerns and ideas are intertwined but my
> > experience on the list has not supported this. Perhaps we just need to
> > call it the afmopenforumlist and let everything fly and quit worrying
> > about which messages fit into which categories.
> >                                 Peace,
> >                                  Joe
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Janet Minshall" <jhminshall at comcast.net>
> > To: <afmdiscussion at yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 9:23 PM
> > Subject: Fwd: Re: [afmdiscussion] our list serve
> >
> >
> >> >Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 21:21:10 -0400
> >>>To: "Joe Parko" <parkoj at bellsouth.net>
> >>>From: Janet  Minshall <jhminshall at comcast.net>
> >>>Subject: Re: [afmdiscussion] our list serve
> >>>Cc:
> >>>Bcc:
> >>>X-Attachments:
> >>>
> >>>Hi Joe, While I do appreciate the peacemaking effort, I think it is
> >>>very hard to separate social concerns from ideas and concepts.  If
> >>>the social concern is well-grounded, it has to be based on ideas and
> >>>concepts.  In our case that would be ideas and concepts about how we
> >>>practice being Friends, expecially in the areas of our social
> >>>concerns.  Best Regards,  Janet
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Friends,
> >>>>It seems to me that our Meeting is being divided by semantics when
> >>>>it relates to our list serve. The so-called afmdiscussion list is
> >>>>rarely used for discussion. What we need is an afmsocial
> >>>>concernslist where people could post articles and events relating
> >>>>to Quaker social concerns. We could keep the afmdiscussion list for
> >>>>actual discussion of ideas and concepts. Then people would know
> >>>>what they are signing up for. I think that the single afmdiscussion
> >>>>list is trying to serve two very different purposes and thus the
> >>>>confusion and conflict.
> >>>>                                    Peace,
> >>>>                                    Joe Parko
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
>
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