[afmdiscussion] Re: [saymaListserv] Where's the Money? Economic Social Concerns

Tue May 24 14:09:46 EDT 2005

Hi Julia,  Any great change in "the way things are", especially the 
economy, displaces large numbers of people.  Those who worked as 
serfs on feudal manors (the majority of the people in Western Europe) 
were suddenly or gradually, according to the area, without a place to 
live or land to work (like sharecroppers after the Civil War in the 
South). Most set out either on foot or in wagons to find new places 
to live and work.  In doing so they took the local germs and viruses 
with them to areas where there was no immunity to what they brought. 
It was very similar to the situation of the Spanish Conquistadors 
bringing smallpox and other illnesses to the Native Americans.

Also, when people found a settlement they tended to crowd into it, 
somewhat the way they would have been crowded together for protection 
on a feudal manor. The manorial enclosures had had centuries to 
develop primitive sanitation, but the newly gathered people in these 
crowded towns didn't realize the connection between sanitation and 
disease so when the diseases came at them from all directions, the 
toll they took on humanity was enormous.

It has only been in the last thirty or forty years that it has been 
recognized that many of the events previously described in history as 
discreet events were actually related to one another and that a chain 
of events that preceded an occurrence was often clearly discernable. 
Janet

(Actually the change was from feudalism to no system at all, not to 
open markets.  Merchant Capitalism developed slowly over time and 
then evolved into other primitive forms of capitalism long before we 
ever developed open markets.)

>I was interested in your comment that the change from feudalism to open
>markets cause the plagues. Could you tell me more about it and where you
>learned that?
>
>Julia
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Janet Minshall" <jhminshall at comcast.net>
>To: <Vmbra at aol.com>
>Cc: <afmdiscussion at yahoogroups.com>; <sayma at kitenet.net>
>Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 12:10 PM
>Subject: [afmdiscussion] Re: [saymaListserv] Where's the Money? Economic
>Social Concerns
>
>
>>  Hi Charles Schade,  You can share anything I write.  I try to hold to
>>  "one standard of truth".
>>
>>  The reason I am pessimistic is because it seems to me that we are
>>  prone, just like the stock market, to "overcorrect" in any direction
>>  taken.  Leadership is also a factor.  I sent out a message a year or
>>  more ago on the intelligence services in this country examining how
>>  to maintain control in the event of a sudden significant drop in
>>  population.  I think their plans, while likely predicated on the
>>  possibility of a extraordinary natural event, would be put into
>>  effect at the first signs of anything gone seriously awry. I am not
>>  at all confident of the purposes of those who control them.
>>
>>  A further comment on my use of the "four horsemen" is that people,
>>  especially Friends who see Socialism as a better system despite its
>>  consistent failures, seem to take a change in the economy very
>>  lightly, as if it were relatively simple.  It isn't simple at all
>>  since all of our basic institutions are based on the only reality
>>  we've known (growth) in the last 700 years or more. Anytime there is
>>  an event which disrupts the way things are, those who suffer most are
>>  the poor, the sick, the disabled, the very young and the very old --
>>  those on the fringes of the economy.
>>
>>  The awful events of the "Middle Ages" such as the plagues and the
>>  famines, were, most likely, brought on by the change in economic
>>  systems from Feudalism to the beginnings of Merchant Capitalism.
>>  Capitalism did not appear suddenly to guide us through the
>>  Rennaisance.  It was being built, step by step and institution by
>>  institution, as it grew from the ashes and disasters arising out of
>>  the previous economic system.
>>
>  > I hope this clarifies.  Janet Minshall
>>
>>
>>
>>  In reference to Janet's letter to Errol Hess sent 5-19:
>>
>>  >That is an interesting position for you to take, in light of your
>>  >previous writings.  I'm sorry if you see the four horsemen as
>>  >inevitable products of some economic invisible hand gone awry, which
>>  >is one way someone could read the letter to Errol.
>>  >
>>  >I'm pessimistic myself, because I think we have very poor
>>  >leadership, but I am not persuaded that a future of disease and
>>  >decline is inevitable.   Stability and balance are achievable in
>>  >nature.  If there weren't natural feedback systems designed to
>>  >stabilize nearly everything alive, we'd have succumbed before
>>  >crawling out of the cave.
>>  >
>>  >The only question in my mind is whether people's greed and intellect
>>  >will prevent a stable balance from being achieved.  And that's where
>>  >Quakers and other optimistic religions may be able to make a
>>  >contribution.  Which I think was the point made at the end of your
>>  >letter.  I heartily agree.
>>  >
>>  >With your permission, I'd like to share your letter the next time
>>  >our meeting has a discussion of environmental issues.
>>  >
>>  >Thanks for writing.
>>  >
>>  >cps
>>
>>
>>  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
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